Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

[diogo_c]

Hope MS manages to improve that with W10.

[forgotteng]

I am on a Motu PCI-424 card with 1296's and now I can't get my 96k sessions to even open. Everytime I open protools it reverts to 44.1k when I change to 96k it shuts everything down and I have to start from scratch. Maddening. 2015 and no fix for this? What can we do?

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by forgotteng

2015 and no fix for this? What can we do?

You can do all the required stuff, to make sure it isn't just prefs related

ie trash your prefs.
Make sure your aiso install is groovy.
Make sure it works in other programs, ie free trial of another Daw could help narrow it down.

[Amack]

Try any other DAW and you'll likely say yes to most/all!

Originally Posted by hjorte

This post is primarily for PT 11 users on Windows using 3rd party USB interfaces.

I used to always run Pro Tools for Windows with Digidesign or M-Audio hardware, but recently changed to a 3rd party USB interface. Though it runs okay, I'm really disappointed by the lack of functionality of the ASIO USB driver that is supplied with the product. It seems to be just a generic core USB driver.

I can't change Sample Rate and I can't change H/W Buffer Size on the fly from inside Pro Tools as I used to. Pro Tools 11 needs to quit and especially Sample Rate changes can end up in a real mess.

My uneducated guess is that many 3rd party manufacturers are using the same OEM USB controller and relying on more or less the same generically written USB ASIO driver. It is not optimized for working with Pro Tools 11 for Windows. It is not optimized to correctly negotiate neither Sample Rate nor H/W Buffer Size with the Avid Audio Engine (AAE) on Windows.

Please answer the below questions to help me see what works and what doesn't. I'm equally interested in seeing what doesn't work as what does.

1. Can you change H/W Buffer Size from within PT without the need to quit PT?
2. Can you switch between sessions with varying odd sample rates from within PT without PT either locking up, refusing to play, or the need to quit PT? I am specifically talking about switching between 44K1<>96K, 44.1K<>48K and 48K<>88K sample rates.
3. Which audio interface did you use for these questions?
4. Which OS and version, PT version, etc.
   

Any comments are welcome. I know that Focusrite USB Windows users are hit by this. I'm amazed that so few people are complaining about it. Maybe they don't know how sweet it works with a proper driver?

[Amack]

Shouldn't you really have said that Pro Tools with "Core Audio seems to handle sample rate changes and asynchronous audio much more easily than ASIO and WDM" since other DAWs don't share that problem (except with Avid products)? Is that also true for Buffer size setting?

Originally Posted by mesaone

Core Audio seems to handle sample rate changes and asynchronous audio much more easily than ASIO and WDM.

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by hjorte

I tend to focus on a product's strengths and work around the downsides. To make music. There will always be negatives - especially with a complex software product like a DAW, which have to run with a million pieces of hardware. I do enjoy working in Pro Tools and my Audient interface is sounding impeccable. Truly great sound.

What worries (or amazes) me the most is the initial reaction from the 3rd party developers when faced with these error reports on sample rate and buffer size issues (on Windows). It's like they never heard of the problem. Focusrite's initial reaction was clearly that. This problem has been there since the very beginning of Pro Tools supporting 3rd party hardware. That's several years now. Don't 3rd party developers test on Windows? Don't they have beta testers running Windows? Are they just accepting the issues? Is Avid to blame completely? Maybe 3rd party developers can indeed write a dedicated and 100% working driver for Pro Tools / Windows, but it's not worth the extra cost involved. One driver for all DAW's, take it or leave it.

I'm amazed that there is so little info about it. I'm also amazed that so few users are vocal about it.

Well we had at least 2 if not 3 rather lengthy discussion threads on this very issue on the 3rd Party Interfaces forum here (with Focusrite). After several emails, Focusrite finally was able to duplicate the problem. But, as you point out, so far, no real solution. However, there is a workaround that, while a bit of a nuisance, at least allows you to switch sample rates between sessions without having PT lock up and all that. I can't recall who first suggested this, but it does work, at least for Windows.

You need to have ASIO4All installed and recognized by PT. First, create dummy sessions in PT for each sample rate you plan to use. No tracks, no audio, nothing at all IN the session. Save each one as "Session 44.1k", "Session 48k" etc. Then, if you're going to open a session with a different sample rate, 44.1k to 48k say, then first close out the session, but leave PT open. Switch the interface to ASIO4ALL, then open the dummy session for the new sample rate. Then switch the interface back to your interface device. Then close the dummy session open the new session. Everything should work. I"ve done this a lot and while it adds a few extra steps that take about 90 seconds, its better than having to reboot everything 3-4 times!

It is also important when switching sample rates between sessions to make sure that when you close the session you also close ANY Rewire VI's instantiated like Reason or Reaper. If you don't, then things will get messed up pretty badly.

Until Focusrite and any other 3rd party interface developers update their drivers to accommodate the specifics of PT, I don't know of any other way to do this.

[Amack]

If you think switching ASIO sample rates and buffer sizes is painful with Pro Tools, you should try switching interfaces! The attachment shows how easy all of those tasks are with Ableton Live 9 Lite (comes free with lots of Focusrite products).

P.S. Would someone please let me know whether or not they can view/download that attachment?

Originally Posted by DonaldM

Well we had at least 2 if not 3 rather lengthy discussion threads on this very issue on the 3rd Party Interfaces forum here (with Focusrite). After several emails, Focusrite finally was able to duplicate the problem. But, as you point out, so far, no real solution. However, there is a workaround that, while a bit of a nuisance, at least allows you to switch sample rates between sessions without having PT lock up and all that. I can't recall who first suggested this, but it does work, at least for Windows.

You need to have ASIO4All installed and recognized by PT. First, create dummy sessions in PT for each sample rate you plan to use. No tracks, no audio, nothing at all IN the session. Save each one as "Session 44.1k", "Session 48k" etc. Then, if you're going to open a session with a different sample rate, 44.1k to 48k say, then first close out the session, but leave PT open. Switch the interface to ASIO4ALL, then open the dummy session for the new sample rate. Then switch the interface back to your interface device. Then close the dummy session open the new session. Everything should work. I"ve done this a lot and while it adds a few extra steps that take about 90 seconds, its better than having to reboot everything 3-4 times!

It is also important when switching sample rates between sessions to make sure that when you close the session you also close ANY Rewire VI's instantiated like Reason or Reaper. If you don't, then things will get messed up pretty badly.

Until Focusrite and any other 3rd party interface developers update their drivers to accommodate the specifics of PT, I don't know of any other way to do this.

[Amack]

FYI and consideration, here are some workarounds that I developed to help me and my son deal with these problems http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=368422. As always feedback is encouraged (except from guitardom/mesaone). I have to ask though, why does everyone seem to think that fixing these problems is the responsibility of the interface manufacturers?

[mesaone]

Except from guitardom/mesaone?

Because you don't like being called out for spreading misinformation, huh?

Originally Posted by Amack

why does everyone seem to think that fixing these problems is the responsibility of the interface manufacturers?

Maybe because it is... Ever heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect?

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by Amack

FYI and consideration, here are some workarounds that I developed to help me and my son deal with these problems

Oh lord your developing workarounds? How could the world ever repay you?

Originally Posted by Amack

I have to ask though, why does everyone seem to think that fixing these problems is the responsibility of the interface manufacturers?

Bait much? I believe you do understand your just baiting the thread to produce the most drama, why ? I still can't figure out why....

Originally Posted by Amack

Yes I would say you are a bit confused, in this I believe you are correct