Automation when Bouncing???

[pmcmurt]

Hi All,

How does one Bounce down to a Stereo Mix whilst capturing all of the Automation within the Session?

Using PT 7.2.1, Session is at 96KHz, 95 of the 96 Tracks are being used. MUTES (On/Off), Volume chanes, PAN changes etc.... they are not working!!! Arrrggghhhhh!

This should be possible right?

Thanks for your time.

Phill

[Jeremy Mix3000]

Hi Phil,

Please don't take offense but you are asking a very basic question on the operation of Pro Tools.... Have you read the manual ? All automation will work as long as you have all tracks in READ mode and you have have not inadvertently put it in auto suspend mode. Pull up your Automation Enable window and make sure the Auto Suspend button is not pushed. Try that and let us know if works.

[Steve MacMillan]

Instead of bouncing to disk, try recording back into your session. Assign all of the tracks that were feeding output 1-2 to a buss pair. Create an aux fader with your mix busses as it's input and it's output set to output 1-2. While you are mixing you can listen thru the final aux sub. When you are ready to print, assign the aux's output to another buss pair and record your mix on a new stereo track (with it's output assigned to output 1-2). This works better for automation.

STeve

[Jeremy Mix3000]

This works better for automation.

Hey Steve. Why does this work better for automation ? Are you saying with bounce to disk the automation is not accurate ?

[Steve MacMillan]

Hey Steve. Why does this work better for automation ? Are you saying with bounce to disk the automation is not accurate ?

This has been my experience. You might Bounce to Disk and never notice a problem. My personal mixing style has tons of tightly automated eq on critical items, like lead vocals. I also like to automate filter sweeps, in time with the track. When my sessions are really big and sort of on the edge, I notice the timing on this kind of automation falling apart while bouncing to disk. Recording back into the session for some reason doesn't screw up the automation like Bounce to Disk, and if I hear something I don't like I can stop and punch in.

STeve

[Andre Knecht]

Alas, I can confirm everything that Steve is writing.

Do some searches for BTD, PTD, PTT, etc. We’ve discussed the intricacies of symptoms and workarounds a few times.

IHTH.
.

[jeremyroberts]

Jeremy,

The old guys around here (myslef included) all remember when BTD and automation did not mix (no pun intended). We're accustomed to NOT using BTD on mixes or when there is significant or critical (dense) automation. Not that this can be quantified, proven or otherwise justified, in the current version(s), BUT -- old habits prevail.

Not to mention, the added benefit of being able to RTD time-aligned to the session, makes for easy tv mixes, vocal up/down, etc...

HOWEVER, BTD IN THEORY should still playback all auto settings. If not, something is not working.

[Steve MacMillan]

HOWEVER, BTD IN THEORY should still playback all auto settings. If not, something is not working.

OK, it has been awhile, so I just did a simple test. I opened and closed the mute on an aux with a white noise generator. Two frames on, two frames off. I panned the noise aux L. I set up a two pop on every 4th frame boundry and panned that R.

One pass I recorded to an internal track, another I bounced to disk.

I lined up the two passes sample accurate with the two pop. The bounced to disk track was noticabley more consistant in the mute accuracy than the internal recorded track. Go figure. Still this is not a test of a complicated mix on the edge. But it seems that at least with simple stuff Bounce to Disk might have an edge. They are clearly not the same.

I wonder if maybe stuff gets fixed that they know is broken, but they don't make a big deal about it because it was never broken, if you know what I mean. What do I know?

STeve

[jeremyroberts]

Steve,

Did you have ADC enabled when you printed the BTD? RTD?

I have not done this test at the frame accurate level in years... so it may be worth a 15 minute excersize on Monday...

Like you, I have real-world "but the mutes were late..." experience with BTD going back years... so I simply avoided it for printing mixes... maybe they fixed it?

I would imagine that delay compensation will be a factor in any apples for apples test.

[Steve MacMillan]

Did you have ADC enabled when you printed the BTD? RTD?

I have not done this test at the frame accurate level in years... so it may be worth a 15 minute excersize on Monday...

Like you, I have real-world "but the mutes were late..." experience with BTD going back years... so I simply avoided it for printing mixes... maybe they fixed it?

I would imagine that delay compensation will be a factor in any apples for apples test.

Yes I did have ADC long on. I had to advance the BTD track 64 samples in order to be in time with my original clicks. That's 1 and 1/2 milliseconds at 48k, so BTD might not be the best thing for video sync unless you manually compensate. The ADC windows on each track only showed 6 samples of compensation, but the Session window showed 45 samples of system delay. Also, you can clearly see with white noise that the mute on or off ramps the volume over about 1200 samples. Strangely, the mute off volume curve is a slow log curve, and the mute on is a fast log curve. It also seemed like there was more slop with mute on than mute off.

STeve