PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

[Markrosoft]

Yes, we are saying it should be an option. Please read the discussion above. We’ve been asking for this for years and years and you saying it’s not a bug doesn’t add anything to the discussion since we are asking for a toggle. All the other daws not only offer the option but they default to the way most people prefer it: the way a performance sounds during a recording, is the way playback sounds.

That is clearly how most people play the keyboard. They go off how it sounds. Real pianos have latency - it takes time to move the mechanisms. So there is no “right” timing other than how it sounds.

Again this is how the other daws default and they offer the toggle for the rare exceptions like this one keyboardist you know who seems to go off tactile feedback rather than how it sounds.

[Dizzi45Z]

Originally Posted by Markrosoft

Yes, we are saying it should be an option. Please read the discussion above. We’ve been asking for this for years and years and you saying it’s not a bug doesn’t add anything to the discussion since we are asking for a toggle. All the other daws not only offer the option but they default to the way most people prefer it: the way a performance sounds during a recording, is the way playback sounds.

That is clearly how most people play the keyboard. They go off how it sounds. Real pianos have latency - it takes time to move the mechanisms. So there is no “right” timing other than how it sounds.

Again this is how the other daws default and they offer the toggle for the rare exceptions like this one keyboardist you know who seems to go off tactile feedback rather than how it sounds.

It sounds like I’m on the same page with you. I haven’t read this whole thread, but I have consistently seen people report this over and over again as a bug on multiple threads. The problem with calling it a bug is that if Avid “fixes” instead of making it an option, it will cause problems for people who would prefer the MIDI to print as played. But I agree that most people would rather the MIDI is compensated.

[strawb]

just Rolled back to 2023.12.1 on Monterey 12.7.6 and all is well.

yesterday i confirmed with Benji at Avid Tech Support that this is a known issue and was not fixed in 2024.10.1 but supposedly will be in march 2025

Originally Posted by strawb

quick update

on a fresh APFS partition on my mac studio
i just did a clean install of sequoia 15.1.1 - PT 2024.10.1 HDX

SAME ISSUE!!!
latency for midi/instrument tracks once any plugins are added to the session.
here's a video showing the issue
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/72hgv...wxd4erqol&dl=0

just feeling defeated here. i've tried everything but a different interface than my antelope galaxy 64 (which is an expensive proposition)

PT 2024 is just broken for me

[snaitizz]

Originally Posted by strawb

just Rolled back to 2023.12.1 on Monterey 12.7.6 and all is well.

yesterday i confirmed with Benji at Avid Tech Support that this is a known issue and was not fixed in 2024.10.1 but supposedly will be in march 2025

FOUR months for a fix to a critical bug they failed to tackle while we're paying $200 a year for "support"??

Amazing.

[strawb]

its been a known issue since PT 2024.3 - my first tech support email was on march 15, 2024 (9+ months)

i pay $600 a year for ulitimate

i agree, it is amazing. not sure how anyone is making any midi music with the current PT 2024

Originally Posted by snaitizz

FOUR months for a fix to a critical bug they failed to tackle while we're paying $200 a year for "support"??

Amazing.

[innerbooty]

Hi there, when you say "all is well" back in 2024.12.1 are you saying you are not having issues with MIDI latency when there are CPU-intensive plugins in the session? I've been sitting tight in 2023.3.1, dealing every day with the ridiculous workaround hoops I have to jump through to record MIDI in a working mix session. As far as I understand it, this bug/option, whatever you want to call it, has yet to be addressed. We are hoping it will be in a possible March 2025 release. Is this correct? I won't be upgrading until this issue is fixed. Not worth the hassle if this issue is still there in all upgrades... As I see it there are two issues. First, is to address the "bug" where there is terrible delay playing MIDI instruments when the session has CPU-heavy plugins (while Delay Compensation is ON). The other issue is this toggle setting folks want. But unless I'm mistaken, there is a bug that needs to be fixed first. Right??

Originally Posted by strawb

just Rolled back to 2023.12.1 on Monterey 12.7.6 and all is well.

yesterday i confirmed with Benji at Avid Tech Support that this is a known issue and was not fixed in 2024.10.1 but supposedly will be in march 2025

[skylar_battles]

To strawb,

I just watched your new video and I’m so sorry to see you experiencing the same behavior as before given you did a clean Sequoia install on a Fresh APFS partition. Just to be sure, are you using the Instrument track default of Green Mode (MIDI Delay Compensation OFF) which suspends Delay Compensation for Low Latency Monitoring while Record Enable and/or Input Monitoring are engaged an Instrument Track? I truly still wonder what is different on 2023.12.1 that causes the issue to NOT occur on your system.

To Dizzi45Z,

I watched that video a while back! Thank you for making it! At this point whether this is classified as bug or an error in implementation is becoming less relevant given that it has a deeply negative impact on the ability to record MIDI with Virtual Instruments in Pro Tools. I do wholeheartedly believe that even your friend who is a really good keyboardist would benefit from this finally being addressed even if they seem to be able to play “in time” regardless of how the performance sounded during recorded. When working with VIs, placing the MIDI notes where they are sounded is desired behavior for nearly everyone! This is why people typically feel more comfortable working with Virtual Instruments in Logic Pro and Ableton than Pro Tools. I do agree though that this behavior should be able to be toggled ON/OFF on a per-track basis, BUT as a means to accommodate other use specific cases that typically involve Hardware Instruments.

To innerbooty,

strawb can feel free to correct me, but I believe they are saying that on PT 2023.12.1, when they add plugins that induce intense Delay Compensation on the session, the issue does NOT occur where MIDI VI Recordings are not compensated correctly by the Delay Comp value, and therefore would play back LATE. The bug that strawb is experiencing does NOT affect ALL users but it is still definitely a high priority bug because it makes it impossible to record with VIs when there are any other plugins in the session at all. The other issue, VI playback ALWAYS sounding EARLY by the H/W buffer value compared to how it sounded during recording, occurs on all PT systems and should be addressed with a track-based toggle to accommodate all MIDI recording use cases. I can’t say which “has to be done first” unfortunately.

[strawb]

correct, "all is well" is to say that i am not having latency/midi overdub issues with 2023.12.1

i did many tests:

2 different OS (monterey, sequoia)
2 different computers (mac studio m1, macbook pro m1)
with and without PT HDX attached (including with and without the HD driver)
2 different physical locations (home and studio)
with 2 different interfaces (antelope galaxy 64 & UAD Volt)
also with NO INTERFACE

and everytime, every version of PT 2024 has the latency issue.
to be clear this is a protools HDX rig, which does not have any "low latency" options in the menus, etc.

patiently waiting for avid to fix this issue

Originally Posted by innerbooty

Hi there, when you say "all is well" back in 2024.12.1 are you saying you are not having issues with MIDI latency when there are CPU-intensive plugins in the session? I've been sitting tight in 2023.3.1, dealing every day with the ridiculous workaround hoops I have to jump through to record MIDI in a working mix session. As far as I understand it, this bug/option, whatever you want to call it, has yet to be addressed. We are hoping it will be in a possible March 2025 release. Is this correct? I won't be upgrading until this issue is fixed. Not worth the hassle if this issue is still there in all upgrades... As I see it there are two issues. First, is to address the "bug" where there is terrible delay playing MIDI instruments when the session has CPU-heavy plugins (while Delay Compensation is ON). The other issue is this toggle setting folks want. But unless I'm mistaken, there is a bug that needs to be fixed first. Right??

[strawb]

thanks
i've never heard of "green mode" but i tried with delay compensation on and off.
and as predicted, with delay comp OFF there is no issue.
but who uses that mode? i never have. it's not an acceptable workaround as one would be overdubbing to tracks that are out of time (a nonstarter).
i've been overdubbing midi VI's on songs PACKED with PLUGINS for decades. and as soon as PT 2024 was released i was unable to do so.
please avid, fix this issue ASAP so i can partake in all of the amazing new PT 2024 functionality.

Originally Posted by skylar_battles

To strawb,

I just watched your new video and I’m so sorry to see you experiencing the same behavior as before given you did a clean Sequoia install on a Fresh APFS partition. Just to be sure, are you using the Instrument track default of Green Mode (MIDI Delay Compensation OFF) which suspends Delay Compensation for Low Latency Monitoring while Record Enable and/or Input Monitoring are engaged an Instrument Track? I truly still wonder what is different on 2023.12.1 that causes the issue to NOT occur on your system.

To Dizzi45Z,

I watched that video a while back! Thank you for making it! At this point whether this is classified as bug or an error in implementation is becoming less relevant given that it has a deeply negative impact on the ability to record MIDI with Virtual Instruments in Pro Tools. I do wholeheartedly believe that even your friend who is a really good keyboardist would benefit from this finally being addressed even if they seem to be able to play “in time” regardless of how the performance sounded during recorded. When working with VIs, placing the MIDI notes where they are sounded is desired behavior for nearly everyone! This is why people typically feel more comfortable working with Virtual Instruments in Logic Pro and Ableton than Pro Tools. I do agree though that this behavior should be able to be toggled ON/OFF on a per-track basis, BUT as a means to accommodate other use specific cases that typically involve Hardware Instruments.

To innerbooty,

strawb can feel free to correct me, but I believe they are saying that on PT 2023.12.1, when they add plugins that induce intense Delay Compensation on the session, the issue does NOT occur where MIDI VI Recordings are not compensated correctly by the Delay Comp value, and therefore would play back LATE. The bug that strawb is experiencing does NOT affect ALL users but it is still definitely a high priority bug because it makes it impossible to record with VIs when there are any other plugins in the session at all. The other issue, VI playback ALWAYS sounding EARLY by the H/W buffer value compared to how it sounded during recording, occurs on all PT systems and should be addressed with a track-based toggle to accommodate all MIDI recording use cases. I can’t say which “has to be done first” unfortunately.

[skylar_battles]

Originally Posted by strawb

thanks
i've never heard of "green mode" but i tried with delay compensation on and off.
and as predicted, with delay comp OFF there is no issue.
but who uses that mode? i never have. it's not an acceptable workaround as one would be overdubbing to tracks that are out of time (a nonstarter).
i've been overdubbing midi VI's on songs PACKED with PLUGINS for decades. and as soon as PT 2024 was released i was unable to do so.
please avid, fix this issue ASAP so i can partake in all of the amazing new PT 2024 functionality.

I think you are misunderstanding the new MIDI Delay Compensation toggle, which was introduced in 2024.10.

In Green Mode (MIDI Delay Compensation OFF), Audio Delay Compensation is suspended for the Instrument track when its Record Enable and/or Input Monitor buttons are engaged, so that you are able to play without thousands of samples of latency, for example, when other plugins are present in the session. This behavior is identical to that of an Audio track, where engaging Record Enable and/or Input Monitoring causes Delay Compensation to be suspended for that track.

So you being able to “overdub midi VI's on songs PACKED with PLUGINS for decades” is because of this behavior. Now it is just equates to the default state and the “Green” Input Monitor button since another mode was added. So it’s not a workaround, it’s the logical default for an Instrument track.

In Blue Mode (MIDI Delay compensation ON), Audio Delay Compensation ALWAYS stays enabled for the Instrument track even when it has its Record Enable and/or Input Monitor buttons engaged. This makes it possible to trigger loops from samplers and have them play in time with the rest of the session during recording or just monitoring while playing along. This is a much more specific use case than typical VI recording. I have not found another case when this mode is useful.

I hope that makes some sense and if not I’m happy to clarify! When you open a session and create an Instrument track to use a drum VI to trigger one shots as I see in your Dropbox videos demonstrating your issue, Record enabling the track and recording in its default Green Mode (MIDI Delay Compensation OFF) should be working correctly, but it sounds like you are faced with the same issue when using any PT version after 2023.12.1.

You can toggle from Green to Blue by Control+Command+Clicking the Input Monitor button on an Instrument track, instead of having to open the track context menu and checking or unchecking it.

To clarify further, the MIDI Delay Compensation modes only affects what is monitored during recording and NOT how the MIDI notes are placed.