PT 6.1 still quiting unexpectedly

[bzldzl]

Anyone else still experiencing this after installing 6.1?

I reinstalled my os and pt, did all the pt6 setup, still having the problem.

[DIGIDUDE26]

only happened once........you have to remember to shut down reason first before quiting PT's, other wise wierd things occur. As for normal use of 6.1 I have had no problems.

[cliepe12]

still experiencing over here too!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] not as bad or as frequent, but still annoying!!

[DigiTechSupt]

Hello,

Have you guys been through all of the suggestions on this thread?

http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ub...;f=24;t=021559

Also, are you doing anything specifically that makes Pro Tools quit? Also, make sure all connected drives, not just your audio drives have been formatted with Disk Utility as Mac OS Extended volumes.


Mike

[cliepe12]

DIGI,

I have been through the trouble shooting procedures a great number of times and have done them all repeatedly. just clicking on the PT icon on the doc caused my first unexpected quit. It was the very first time i clicked on the new icon!! It was a welcoming sign to me and reminded me that I was still using PT6 and not old reliable PT5.X

Any more help would be greatly appreciated. Are there any other known bugs discovered in 6.1??

[DigiTechSupt]

Hello,

I would suggest swapping out RAM at this point. We have seen quite a few systems that run perfectly well under OS 9 but have problems in OS X. X seems to be very very picky about memory. Pull half of the RAM out and try running Pro Tools, then swap if the problems persist.


Mike

[bzldzl]

OOOhhh! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Chris I agree with you 100%. I bet Sound Track(I think that is what is called) does not quit. I have to keep the backup on every 2min just to be safe. Very embarissing in front of clients. I had been telling them, "Oh that will stop when 6.1 comes out." Now what?

It's too bad PT is so great, otherwise I would start looking into other apps

[Kahuna]

Pro Tools by it's very nature is a memory intensive app, and it's documented as such. If the specs say 512 minimum and OSX only recognizes 256 of the 512 you got in there, Pro Tools is going to puke.

That's a problem with the OS, not PT. This is not a new issue with OSX. I'd check your RAM.

[dcornutt]

actually, this problem goes back a ways.

When apple moved to PC compatible ram.

It's also documented in the apple TIL library.

I remember OS9 machines on the PC100 ram compatible macs that wouldn't even boot using some "spec compatible" ram they bought for cheap from resources like ..via price watch.

It was also evident..even with Developer resleases of OSX early on..that OSX was very sensitive to ram issues.

That's been going on a long time.

There are 2 main categories of issues here.

One is, bad chip. The other is a compatiblity issue "between" chips..or out of spec ram (it says one thing..but actually doesn't meet that spec..or has some other incompatiblities).

In the first case..as surmised, if you have a ram chip with bad components on it in slot 2...after your OEM chip..anything that you so within the ram space of that OEM chip is fine...but once you increase mem load to reach that 2nd chip...whamo.

This issue, also as noted, would be more frequent on a machine that has an OEM 128..then an aftermarket 512 behind that..as you would frequently get beyond 128 megs and into the 2nd chip.

If you have an OEM 512..in slot one..you'll still see the same issue..but not as often...and only with apps that take you over 512 megs of ram resource usage.

Same for having a good OEM, good 2nd slot..but a bad 3rd slot ram chip. You'll rarely see the problem..but once and a while on a very large session or under heavy loads...wham.

If it "is" a ram issue...it will happen in any app..that reaches that load level or mem usage.

And, it's repeatable.

That's something to look for.

On one particular machine I was working on..I could reproduce the crash in Photoshop..using a very large file..just as easily as I could in PT.

The " incompabile" issue is a little harder to nail down. As this can range from overall bad behavior and installbility in your system..to intermitant behavior. Generally, here..the symptoms would be..the ram tests good..individually...but when placed together ..the problems start.

But, I've seen a rash of these...not only on macs..but on PC's as well. I've fixed a few NT, 2k, boxes with bad ram.

There is one more thing I should mention..I've also come across ...bad seated ram that did the same thing.

Make sure it's completley seated..in all slots.

So, yes...if you have a memory problem..using itunes or something similar might not trigger it..but using PTle surely would. And if you have a 512 OEM in the first slot..probably it would take a little bit of load to trigger it...even using PTle.

Thats not uncommon behavior for this issue.

There are also plenty of other things that can cause one app to act up...but this ram check is specifically more important to those of you who have already tried "everything"....(and be sure of that assessment)...done clean installs..etc..repaired permissions..have ALL the drives you use formated with HFS+ by running off the OSX boot CD and running the drive setup utliity (not under OS9).

One last thing I might mention...as this has recently surfaced on the DP forums. Some people were getting audio spikes to 100%...severley hampering performance and causing cursor hangs (spinning beach ball).

After trying "everything"...one person reported..that removing his powerlogix G4 upgrade card..and replacing it with the OEM cpu...fixed this issue. That was under DP though.

I've not seen the same sort of reports here to speak of...but thought I'd mention it anyway.

What you are looking for in a ram test..is to remove all but one chip. Then place load on it...until you hear your disk paging. You can do this with any app. ..but just choose something memory intensive. PS works, DAWs work...but things like itunes..etc..do not.

Find a way to successively bring it under load...adding one thing at a time..until you get a quit. Then..start over and reapeat..and see if you get the quit in about the same place (mem usage "can" grow over time under OSX).

Then..try another app..and do the same thing.

What you are looking for is the repeatability of it. ..in approximately the same place.

You can also use certain memory testing applications to run tests on each chip to see if it reports errors. This could tell you if the chip was "bad"...but it wont' tell you if there is an incomabiltiy between the chips that OSX is sensitive to.

If you can go till you hear your disk crunching "paging out VM"....then your ok. Test the next chip. If all chips test ok...indiviudally...test them in sets. If you have 2 OEM chips..test those together. If you hae one OEM and 2 aftermarkets...test the 2 aftermarkets together.

Generally...incompatiblities of this kind occur between the OEM spec apple ram..and the "other" aftermarket ram.

Remember..if you are testing a pair of chips..youare going to have to increase the load of your app test even more.

If you find that there is an incompabilitiy...you have a couple of options. One is ..to yank the smaller of the 2 configs. If you have one smaller OEM chip...and 2 much larger aftermarket...yank the OEM and be done with it.

If you find incompabilities amoung all of your chips..OR..just to be safe and done with this issue once and forall...I recommend replacing ALL of your ram..with 3 quality ram chips..of the same part number and type from a reputable mac resaler.

I yanked my OEM 128 and bought 3 kingston 512s at the same time. Done. Tests good all the way thru.

The other option of course is when you buy your new computer..to load it to the gills with apple ram. This costs $$$$$ however.

Out of the ram issues I've fixed on macs...it was rare to find a "bad" OEM chip..mostly..it was incompatiblity between the OEM and aftermarket..and this increased in frequency after apple started using PC compatible ram...that people were buying from PC resellers...based on "specs". Apple knows OSX is sensitive to ram spec..and their OEM ram..is tested..very strictly to more stringent standards..than the cheapo ram you can buy out there. The issue has always been..how do you tell? It's all PC 100 or PC 133 cas 2 or 3..etc.?

And the truth is..you just can't really. You can read the specs..and it can look exactly the same..but they can be ..very different.

The only way you have to coming close to ensuring your ram compatbility ..is to buy it all at the same time...the same part number..etc..and choosing decent quality to ram..and for us..that means...shopping at an apple authorized reseller ..and not at Staples, or price watch...etc.

So, caveat emptor on that.

If you have tried all the repairing permissions...etc..tested your ram...all of those things..and "STILL" have issues with PTle....here's what I would do.

Backup all your data/files..etc.

Disconnect all your periphals...ALL of them.

Reboot machine from OSX CD. Reformat "all" drives on your machine using drive ssetup off the OSX Cd with HFS plus. (mac os extended).
Note...that says "all" drives...not just your sys drive and app drive..etc.

After installing OSX...install any updates to the OS..reparing permissions between each install.

When you have OSX to 10.2.6..follow the digi guidelines of disabling classic laucnh on startup...etc. set energy saver to never..."turn off volume indexing in Sherlock".

Once you have all the system settings Digi recommends..installyour digi hardware and PTle and PTle ONLY. No reason..no 3rd party plugs..etc. Just PTle.

Repair permissions.

Follow Digi guide for setting up your PT system.

If you need to install updates to PT..repair permissions after each update install.

Test PTle. If all seems well, start adding "one" thing at a time back in...repairing permissions between any install, and testing afterwards.

If with just PTle loaded..your still getting crashes..etc..and instability...STOP right there and call Digi techsupport. At this point..you have a base min config that will make it much more productive to troubleshooot over the phone with Digi.

If you follow this, you'll either end up wiht everythign reinstalled and working properly...or..you'll find the culprit that's fragging your machine.

Anyway, a little more info.

Generally, it's been a fairly common experience for people who have had instability no matter what they do...to turn up wth having a bad ram chip or incompatible ram chip somewhere. That's happened to more than a handful of people here.

The other common problem might be a config or some other issue..that's just not getting straighted out with the trash prefs, rebuild permissions thing. In those cases..and given you have good ram...just starting fresh..should clear things up for you.

It's worked for several people here..who were in the same boat.

Your goal is a working productive config of PTle. There are people here who have just that and it's a joy to use. So, just keep your eye on the prize as it were. Blaming OSX..or ..Digi for this..is pointless. It "is" possible to have both OSX and PTle running well...as evidenced by those doing it everyday.

The issue as to whether or not reaching this state..should be "easier" is a point for discussion in another thread I would think.
But, do keep in mind..that it's not "impossible".
Don't get discouraged.

Anyway, a few more things to try.

[cliepe12]

Points well taken, as a matter of fact, I ran a hardware test and both of my aftermarket 512 dimms caused an error, so I yanked them out and I have just the 256 in there now. I have been loading the 256 down all day with tons of apps and have had no quits, or any problems at all.

The RAM I had in there was "house brand" from Mac Warehouse. I just bought one 512 Kensington chip and sent the other dimms back to the warehouse.

Do you think Kensington is a good move, or should I just go strait to apple??