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  #21  
Old 10-19-2003, 08:37 PM
yin7yang64 yin7yang64 is offline
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Default Re: Rubber Soul

That's a breathtakingly exhaustive site you sent us to. Very impressive. But what really amazes me is that in spite of how "flawed" those Beatles recordings are, those errors don't keep the songs from working. Maybe I'm spending too much time fine tuning and cleaning up my own projects.
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  #22  
Old 10-20-2003, 10:54 AM
tucum tucum is offline
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Default Re: Rubber Soul

Quote:
Maybe I'm spending too much time fine tuning and cleaning up my own projects.
Now THAT is the problem of working with PT and digital recording in general. Everything is just too clean. Let's keep dirrrrty!
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  #23  
Old 10-20-2003, 07:02 PM
RadioMoo RadioMoo is offline
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Default Re: Rubber Soul

hey tucum,

I was listening to 'Rubber Soul' today, and it occured to me that there is a vocal effect on there that probably prompted your question: 'Rubber Soul' was the first Beatles album to use ADT--"Artificial Double Tracking." This is sometimes called 'flanging' (there's a story here), but the more appropriate term (and appropriate plugin) is 'delay.' My suggestion to get your feet wet would be to record something on a mono track, plugin the 'Short Delay II (mono/stereo),' leave inputs at '0,' set both 'mix' numbers at 100%, put both 'LPF's (that's Low Pass Filter) at 12k, left delay at '0,' right delay at 20.0 ms, and depth, rate and feedback all at '0.' Put on headphones and enjoy.

ADT was developed by Abbey Road head of engineering Ken Townsend after hearing complaints from the Beatles about having to 'manually' double track vocals (singing them a second time as an overdub). This was a good 5 or 6 years before the first digital delays were available. Here's Beatles engineer Geoff Emerick on how this was done:

"You have to take the signal of the vocal from the sync head [I'll explain--Moo.]. So, you're mixing off the replay head. The sync is in advance, and you put it into another 1/4 inch tape machine, then you put that on frequency control (varispeed or pitch control) and you slow it down. You're not trying to advance it; it's already advanced. You're just slowing it down. The trick is taking it off the sync head." (copyright 2002 primedia business magazines and media--Mix magazine, in other words.)

['Sync' is the ability to change the record head into a playback head. On a tape deck, the playback head is about 1 1/2 inches from the record head; in order to do overdubs and monitor what's already been recorded, the record heads for the tracks that are already recorded are switched from 'record' to 'sync,' otherwize, the overdubs would be 1 1/2 inches behind the already recorded stuff on the tape, and would therefore lag behind the rest when they were all played back together (you can't slip regions on tape!)]

The Abbey Road crew also set the standard for stereo placement of ADT'd signals: dry signal on one channel, delayed signal on the other. If you listen to a few of the songs on 'Rubber Soul' (like "The Word"), you'll hear the lead vocal on the right channel, while choruses, harmonies, etc. that are ADT'd are panned dry=right, delayed=left.

This device could be adjusted in real time while mixing, enabling the mixer to get the swirling "flanged" sound that became popular at the time (and which a lot of people still seem to like). John Lennon once asked producer George Martin how ADT worked. George knew that John wasn't a very technical person, and decided to have some fun with him, so he told him that they used a "double vibrocated sploshing flange with double negative feedback." John never asked again, but everytime he wanted his vocals ADT'd, he ask for "Ken's flanger." The name stuck.
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  #24  
Old 10-21-2003, 10:31 AM
tucum tucum is offline
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Default Re: Rubber Soul

Hey, Thanks a lot for the tip. I'll try it tonight!
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  #25  
Old 10-21-2003, 11:21 AM
Lowfreq Lowfreq is offline
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Default Re: Rubber Soul

Quote:
That's a breathtakingly exhaustive site you sent us to. Very impressive. But what really amazes me is that in spite of how "flawed" those Beatles recordings are, those errors don't keep the songs from working. Maybe I'm spending too much time fine tuning and cleaning up my own projects.

They wrote great songs & great songs will be great even if they are laid down to a cassette recorder. This is not to say that Sr. George wasn't instrumental in making those songs shine though. I have seen TV programs, attended seminars, & read some of the myriad of George Martin book & I always walk away with something.
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  #26  
Old 10-21-2003, 12:06 PM
shady656 shady656 is offline
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Default Re: Rubber Soul

I don't know if that's a joke or not, but it's woth asking. Is ther going to be an "Abbey Road" plugin made?????!!
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  #27  
Old 10-21-2003, 04:39 PM
Pako Pako is offline
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Default Re: Rubber Soul

Quote:
hey tucum,

I was listening to 'Rubber Soul' today, and it occured to me that there is a vocal effect on there that probably prompted your question: 'Rubber Soul' was the first Beatles album to use ADT--"Artificial Double Tracking." This is sometimes called 'flanging' (there's a story here), but the more appropriate term (and appropriate plugin) is 'delay.' My suggestion to get your feet wet would be to record something on a mono track, plugin the 'Short Delay II (mono/stereo),' leave inputs at '0,' set both 'mix' numbers at 100%, put both 'LPF's (that's Low Pass Filter) at 12k, left delay at '0,' right delay at 20.0 ms, and depth, rate and feedback all at '0.' Put on headphones and enjoy.

*snip*


Wow, tried that today...on a mono track. What a difference! Love the depth and thickness it gave it!

Cheers





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  #28  
Old 10-21-2003, 06:11 PM
M Lawrence M Lawrence is offline
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Default Re: Rubber Soul

i actually got to have a good play & listen to the chandler tg1 (comp/limit) at aes, and, i gotta tell you guyz, IT IS LUSH!!! it IS the sound of abbey road! it literally took my breath away! i'd almost cut off a leg for one. i'm definitely gonna get one of the tg2's in the near future (the 2ch mic pre from the same emi/abbey road desk). it's only $1500-1600 at the moment, though i heard them talking about it going up soon. and don't get that tl audio compressor; that's the stuff they make for guitarmart shoppers. actually, for $500-600 less, you can get the new toft audio atc2 (designed by malcolm toft, who designed the great trident a range & 80b consoles!). mercenary is sellin' 'em for $1000, and they sound so much better than the tl audio [bleep]. the eq is very good; based on the 80b series, which were awesome! (heard it at aes). the only weak link are the pre's; they're not that special, but they certainly stand up to any of the presonus, focusrite, hhb crap. i'm assuming you're looking to get a stereo comp/limiter, and for the $1500 the tl audio 5052 costs, there ain't much. you'd be better off getting a couple of fmr's rnc1773's, & running one into the other for limiting. it'd sound better than the tl audio. manley makes the langevin dual channel elop comp/limiter, and that only sells for $1600. and that's a really nice piece, too. and it'll retain it's resale value, unlike the 5052. if you can scrape together another $500 or so, the choices would start to open up. like 2 distressors linked, or the avalon 247. aside getting the real thing, like the chandler, the distressors, or cranesong's trakker's would do the best job of emulating that sound, the tl audio piece WILL NOT do it. i promise you.

anyway, thanx so much for this thread! i am a HUGE beatles fan, & revolver & rubber soul are my fave albums of theirs.


ml
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  #29  
Old 10-21-2003, 06:31 PM
RadioMoo RadioMoo is offline
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Default Re: Rubber Soul

Thanks for that, M L!

I was thinking of the tube tracker myself; any thoughts?

PS I'm enjoying this thread myself, and I thank "tucum" for the innocent little post that set it all off.
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  #30  
Old 10-21-2003, 06:45 PM
cranque cranque is offline
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Default Re: Rubber Soul

Shady656, there's no Abbey Road plugin, current or planned, that I know of. I was just having some fun. Sounds like the Chandler TG1 might be the functional equivalent, though.
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