USB Hubs with recent Macbook Pros; what are you guys using?

[Thenewexhibit]

What kind of thunderbolt/USB hubs are you using to connect all of your peripherals with recent Macbook Pros since they don't have many ports on them?

How is bandwidth when it comes to having an interface, SSD recording and sample drives, iloks, keyboard and mouse, midi keyboards, control surfaces, additional screens, power for the laptop, etc.?

Which brands are you using and how efficient does everything work? I assume independently powered is still the way to go?

[Darryl Ramm]

The newest Macbook Pros have Thunderbolt 5 or Thunderbolt 4 depending on model. The world of Thunderbolt 5 chassis and docks is very much evolving. Are you looking at Thunderbolt 5 or 4 equipped Macs and peripherals. Thunderbolt 5 matters mostly for SSD storage and multiple high-end displays.

Are you after a Thunderbolt dock/hub or a USB only hub? Both use USB-C but are different, USB hubs typically won't support Thunderbolt specific capabilities (higher bandwidth, more advanced monitor support, etc). While Thunderbolt docks/hubs have internal USB hubs/multiple USB only outputs in addition to Thunderbolt capable USB port(s).

Personally I've been using various Thunderbolt 3 docks from OWC for years now, multiple different versions, on multiple different Macs. Used for USB peripherals, iLok keys, power to the laptop, portable SSDs etc., even an have an old dock with Firewire support which is still handy. Don't use docks for main storage... I have NVMe SSDs all running in Sonnet Thunderbolt 3 to PCIe chassis for most of my storage (none on Thunderbolt 5 capable Macs yet), and am watching what happens there for Thunderbolt 5 next Macs.

USB in particular is a confusing compatibility mess. Especially with the different sub-standards that are optional in different implementations. Thanks to the USB-IF organization that keep making this stuff so confusing for consumers. And that spills over into Thunderbolt as well since they share some technology.

Since there are some alligators hidden in this compatibility swamp, you might get more useful help the more you can describe what you need. e.g. Thunderbolt 4 or 5, USB only or Thunderbolt, what USB output ports do you need on the dock/hub? transportable/compact or desktop, what spec monitors do you need to connect, e.g. Thunderbolt 4, HDMI (what specs), DisplayPort (what specs), Thunderbolt 5 etc. etc. That can all quickly limit choices.

Your signature says Sandisk Extreme Pro I hope you are aware of the data loss issues with those drives, and the lawsuits against Sandisk/WD. No Mac directly supports the USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20Gbit/s) needed to drive those SSDs at their maximum speed. And most docks/hubs will not provide USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 regardless of being connected to faster than 20 Gbit/s ports on a Mac. However there is seemingly a solution on Apple Intel Macs: https://eclecticlight.co/2024/12/25/...at-full-speed/

[tope d]

OWC ports seems pretty decent. I've used their Thunderbolt 3 hub in the past. the nearby apple store recommended Belkin (they have thunderbolt 4 and 5 I believe,(faster data transfer than earlier versions) though I did not buy it and haven't tried it before.

[dominicperry]

For high bandwidth stuff I use a CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub with my MBP M1Max.
Expensive, not totally reliable and with the most massive power brick, but seemed better than the alternatives when I got it a while back.
The good thing is that Caldigit continue to develop new products and support the old ones with occassional updates. Build quality is generally good.

There are quite a lot of historical problems with disconnecting drives and poor USB power and data performance relating to MacOS and Mx machines, which can be mistakenly blamed on hubs.
(This is why I love my Mac Pro 2019 - loads of ports, which work).
Sequoia may be better in this regard, but I can't use it because of the various Carbon-related problems with Sonoma and Sequoia, so I'm still on Ventura.

I also have an old Atolla 7-port USB-A 3.0 hub that has done well for many years, but no good for high-bandwidth devices that you mentioned. But it happily hangs off one of the Caldigit ports to give me a bunch of low-bandwidth USB-A ports.

Dominic

[Franklyn]

2022 I bought the OWC Thunderbolt 4 Dock for my MBP Max M1.
This thing in great. A lot of connections and works fine !

BTW, there is not speed difference between TB3 and TB4 in Case of TB gear.
The only difference between TB3 and 4 is that TB4 includes USB4 .

As we know,TB5 is a lot faster, but t am not really seeing aTB5 Dock with multiple connections. The OWC TB5 has only 3 TB inputs.

I connect SSDs always direct at the MBP, because Every TB Dock makes the Transfer rate lower.

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

The newest Macbook Pros have Thunderbolt 5 or Thunderbolt 4 depending on model. The world of Thunderbolt 5 chassis and docks is very much evolving. Are you looking at Thunderbolt 5 or 4 equipped Macs and peripherals. Thunderbolt 5 matters mostly for SSD storage and multiple high-end displays.

Are you after a Thunderbolt dock/hub or a USB only hub? Both use USB-C but are different, USB hubs typically won't support Thunderbolt specific capabilities (higher bandwidth, more advanced monitor support, etc). While Thunderbolt docks/hubs have internal USB hubs/multiple USB only outputs in addition to Thunderbolt capable USB port(s).

Personally I've been using various Thunderbolt 3 docks from OWC for years now, multiple different versions, on multiple different Macs. Used for USB peripherals, iLok keys, power to the laptop, portable SSDs etc., even an have an old dock with Firewire support which is still handy. Don't use docks for main storage... I have NVMe SSDs all running in Sonnet Thunderbolt 3 to PCIe chassis for most of my storage (none on Thunderbolt 5 capable Macs yet), and am watching what happens there for Thunderbolt 5 next Macs.

USB in particular is a confusing compatibility mess. Especially with the different sub-standards that are optional in different implementations. Thanks to the USB-IF organization that keep making this stuff so confusing for consumers. And that spills over into Thunderbolt as well since they share some technology.

Since there are some alligators hidden in this compatibility swamp, you might get more useful help the more you can describe what you need. e.g. Thunderbolt 4 or 5, USB only or Thunderbolt, what USB output ports do you need on the dock/hub? transportable/compact or desktop, what spec monitors do you need to connect, e.g. Thunderbolt 4, HDMI (what specs), DisplayPort (what specs), Thunderbolt 5 etc. etc. That can all quickly limit choices.

Your signature says Sandisk Extreme Pro I hope you are aware of the data loss issues with those drives, and the lawsuits against Sandisk/WD. No Mac directly supports the USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20Gbit/s) needed to drive those SSDs at their maximum speed. And most docks/hubs will not provide USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 regardless of being connected to faster than 20 Gbit/s ports on a Mac. However there is seemingly a solution on Apple Intel Macs: https://eclecticlight.co/2024/12/25/...at-full-speed/

Thanks for the heads up on all of this Darryl! I remember you saying the Sandisks are bad news, so I plan to get Samsung T7 shields instead.

I was trying to find out this stuff out for someone based on the computer they have. I found out the specs:

Macbook Pro 14,2 M3 Pro 12 Core CPU, 18 Core GPU, 36GB Ram, 1 TB SSD

It looks like it has 3 Thunderbolt 4 portsand HDMI.

I need to be able to use this computer to hook up a Samsung T7 shield for a session drive, hook up peripherals such as keyboard, mouse, ilok, external 27” 1080 monitor, and connect it to Dante to record no more than 64 channels (probably around 50 or so tracks coming from an Allen & Heath D Live).

Do you have any recommendations about what would work good for that? A lot of that compatibility stuff flies right over my head. I was originally thinking some kind of Anker USB hub and a separate USB C to ethernet adapter, etc., but also saw the Caldigit stuff too, but I don’t know.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Thenewexhibit

Thanks for the heads up on all of this Darryl! I remember you saying the Sandisks are bad news, so I plan to get Samsung T7 shields instead.

I was trying to find out this stuff out for someone based on the computer they have. I found out the specs:

Macbook Pro 14,2 M3 Pro 12 Core CPU, 18 Core GPU, 36GB Ram, 1 TB SSD

It looks like it has 3 Thunderbolt 4 ports and HDMI.

I need to be able to use this computer to hook up a Samsung T7 shield for a session drive, hook up peripherals such as keyboard, mouse, ilok, external 27” 1080 monitor, and connect it to Dante to record no more than 64 channels (probably around 50 or so tracks coming from an Allen & Heath D Live).

Do you have any recommendations about what would work good for that? A lot of that compatibility stuff flies right over my head. I was originally thinking some kind of Anker USB hub and a separate USB C to ethernet adapter, etc., but also saw the Caldigit stuff too, but I don’t know.

OK so Thunderbolt 4 so no point looking for Thunderbolt 5 docks and hubs since things are changing there too much (and some of the early products there are uh just not good (e.g. have slower speed to a Thunderbolt 4 device than a Thunderbolt 4 hub) etc.).

A Thunderbolt 4 compatible hub/dock gets you improved single monitor support, 8k vs. 5k on Thunderbolt 3 but you are only running at 1080... so you are nowhere close to that (and who runs Pro Tools on an 8k display?). Thunderbolt 4 also potentially offers increased power delivery (up to 100W) but the dock/hub has to support that (the one below I suggest does 90W which is a good amount to charge a laptop). So probably not really worrying about Thunderbolt 4 and you could get a Thunderbolt 3 or 4 dock, or actually even USB-4 hub since USB-4 Hubs are supposed to support Thunderbolt 3 (and any from a decent vendor will... the same is *not* necessarily true of USB-4 hosts).

Just because I like the OWC docks I'd probably consider https://www.owc.com/solutions/thunderbolt-dock. But look at other model Thunderbolt 3 or 4 docks or hubs from OWC, Sonnet or CalDigit especially if you want HDMI or similar display outputs on the dock or faster than 1Gbit Ethernet.

Samsung T7 or T9 are good choices for small portable USB SSDs, the T7 supports up to USB 3.2 Gen 2 (aka 10 Gbit/s). The T9 supports up to USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20 Gbit/s) like your current drive, but again Macs only support USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbit/s). I would likely hang the SSD off a dedicated port on the MacBook Pro while using the dock on another.

Does the 1080 monitor have HDMI so you can drive it from the Mac? Do you want a dock with HDMI out on it so you have one less cable to connect to the MacBook Pro? If not what interface does it have, you'll either need to look for a dock with that video out interface or a separate adapter dongle off one of the Thunderbolt outputs on the dock.

How are you getting to Dante? Hopefully using an external interface (like a USB-3 RME Digiface Dante or something else, yes I'm biased) I don't like DVS, and I'd also prefer to not run Dante on say a NAS LAN and I think its just simpler for many people to have a separate dedicated LAN than mess with fancier switches and VLANs. And sure you might just get away with running stuff fine, maybe you already know DVS on a shared LAN works fine for your needs.

What networking do you need in the dock? Most are 1 GBit/s Ethernet. More and more sites are running 10 Gbit today, at least for main networks/SANs. If so you'll likely end up with separate Thunderbolt to 10Gbit/s Ethernet adapter.

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

OK so Thunderbolt 4 so no point looking for Thunderbolt 5 docks and hubs since things are changing there too much (and some of the early products there are uh just not good (e.g. have slower speed to a Thunderbolt 4 device than a Thunderbolt 4 hub) etc.).

A Thunderbolt 4 compatible hub/dock gets you improved single monitor support, 8k vs. 5k on Thunderbolt 3 but you are only running at 1080... so you are nowhere close to that (and who runs Pro Tools on an 8k display?). Thunderbolt 4 also potentially offers increased power delivery (up to 100W) but the dock/hub has to support that (the one below I suggest does 90W which is a good amount to charge a laptop). So probably not really worrying about Thunderbolt 4 and you could get a Thunderbolt 3 or 4 dock, or actually even USB-4 hub since USB-4 Hubs are supposed to support Thunderbolt 3 (and any from a decent vendor will... the same is *not* necessarily true of USB-4 hosts).

Just because I like the OWC docks I'd probably consider https://www.owc.com/solutions/thunderbolt-dock. But look at other model Thunderbolt 3 or 4 docks or hubs from OWC, Sonnet or CalDigit especially if you want HDMI or similar display outputs on the dock or faster than 1Gbit Ethernet.

Samsung T7 or T9 are good choices for small portable USB SSDs, the T7 supports up to USB 3.2 Gen 2 (aka 10 Gbit/s). The T9 supports up to USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20 Gbit/s) like your current drive, but again Macs only support USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbit/s). I would likely hang the SSD off a dedicated port on the MacBook Pro while using the dock on another.

Does the 1080 monitor have HDMI so you can drive it from the Mac? Do you want a dock with HDMI out on it so you have one less cable to connect to the MacBook Pro? If not what interface does it have, you'll either need to look for a dock with that video out interface or a separate adapter dongle off one of the Thunderbolt outputs on the dock.

How are you getting to Dante? Hopefully using an external interface (like a USB-3 RME Digiface Dante or something else, yes I'm biased) I don't like DVS, and I'd also prefer to not run Dante on say a NAS LAN and I think its just simpler for many people to have a separate dedicated LAN than mess with fancier switches and VLANs. And sure you might just get away with running stuff fine, maybe you already know DVS on a shared LAN works fine for your needs.

What networking do you need in the dock? Most are 1 GBit/s Ethernet. More and more sites are running 10 Gbit today, at least for main networks/SANs. If so you'll likely end up with separate Thunderbolt to 10Gbit/s Ethernet adapter.

Thanks for the reply! As far as the monitor, I BELIEVE the computer has an HDMI port, so it’ll probably get hooked up there. As far as Dante goes, offf… Whenever I have recorded with Dante in my personal experiences, I’ve just been handed a cat5 cable and used Dante Virtual Sound Card haha there’s a LOT I don’t understand about network stuff regarding NAS LAN etc., so a lot of that goes over my head. I’ll have to check out that USB-3 RME Digiface Dante, but I don't think that will be an option this time around. I was just thinking of getting the cat5 cable plugged in, either through a hub, or through a separate adapter. It’s coming from the network that the Allen & Heath is hooked up to at my church. I know I couldn’t bring in my computer because they are tight with outside computers being hooked up to the network. This being said, what do you think the best way to hook up Dante to the MacBook would be, keeping all of the peripherals and hub in mind?

[Darryl Ramm]

If DVS is working for you--and I suspect you are not running say a heavy NAS (Network Attached Storage e.g. file sharing to a server on the network) on a church network network--then keep doing what you are doing. It's a lot easier if you don't have demanding latency/no real time monitoring over Dante.

If you run into issues ask about them here, other folks will have much more experience there than me. For low-latency and super reliable operation I'd be looking at a dedicated Dante interface (PCIe card or USB/thunderbolt box) and a dedicated physical network for the Dante traffic, and keep that network as simple and separate from unneeded things as possible, but if DVS works OK then you are set.

An example of a lovely simple Dante network is a dedicated point to point RJ45 cable and no switch/hub. Just read the doc and set up the IP addresses appropriate for that use (since the Ethernet ports are not getting IP addresses assigned by a DHCP server in that scenario since there is not one on that private point to point Dante network).

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

If DVS is working for you--and I suspect you are not running say a heavy NAS (Network Attached Storage e.g. file sharing to a server on the network) on a church network network--then keep doing what you are doing. It's a lot easier if you don't have demanding latency/no real time monitoring over Dante.

If you run into issues ask about them here, other folks will have much more experience there than me. For low-latency and super reliable operation I'd be looking at a dedicated Dante interface (PCIe card or USB/thunderbolt box) and a dedicated physical network for the Dante traffic, and keep that network as simple and separate from unneeded things as possible, but if DVS works OK then you are set.

An example of a lovely simple Dante network is a dedicated point to point RJ45 cable and no switch/hub. Just read the doc and set up the IP addresses appropriate for that use (since the Ethernet ports are not getting IP addresses assigned by a DHCP server in that scenario since there is not one on that private point to point Dante network).

Wow! That’s all super interesting! In the case of the RME digiface Dante, I’m having trouble understanding the benefit of that.. If the Allen & Heath is connected to a Dante network with other stuff, does the RME offer any benefit being hooked up to all of that? Or is this for a more solid connection when doing only say the Allen & Heath directly to this interface? Does it offer more stability or better quality by going from the console to the interface as opposed to the console directly to the computer via RJ45? Is the RME better for latency when needing to monitor what is being recorded? Can you patch differently with this like you can in DVS? I’m just trying to understand the benefit of it.

All of this being said, here is the scenario based on everything I’ve learned from you and the given timeframe (we needed a hub last week in reality), so here is what it looks like we’ll have to do in the mean time:

Since the computer has 3 thunderbolt ports and one HDMI port, and we don’t have a hub (not sure if I could get something comparable from an electronics store that will work like a sonnet, or caldigit, or OWC, etc.?), I’m thinking of recording the session directly to the internal SSD instead of an external SSD to save ports (since we might not be able to have a hub for this Monday, which is pre-recording/testing, unless local stores carry something comparable in performance?), hooking up a 1080 monitor via HDMI, and connecting Dante via a thunderbolt to network adapter bought locally. Also, perhaps a simple usb hub for light peripherals such as ilok, keyboard, and mouse.

Probably hard to say definitely, but does this sound like this setup “should” work?