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  #1  
Old 09-23-2009, 09:44 AM
Carl Kolchak Carl Kolchak is offline
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Default Lethal Playlist Bug

Can anybody reproduce this, or is it unique to my system?

1. Create a track with 2 or more playlists.

2. Place a region on the top playlist.

3. Copy the region on to the 2nd playlist (they should occupy the exact same place in the timeline if you flip from one playlist to the other).

4. In the top playlist, use the scrub tool to locate any spot in the region, then place a sync mark at that location.

5. Flip over to the 2nd playlist. What do you see?

I'm finding that the duplicate region on the second playlist has jumped forwards in time by the amount of difference between the start of the region and the sync mark.

This has just killed all my safety copies and alternate takes for this reel I'm working on.

I've never noticed this happen before, but I usually have completely different regions on the alternate playlists, rather than many different subtle variations in placement of the exact same region, so perhaps that's why it's never bitten me before.

I'm using PT 7.3.1cs10

Any corroboration or remedies (Digi TS I'm looking in your direction if this is a logged bug) greatly appreciated.

Cheers!
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  #2  
Old 09-23-2009, 09:56 AM
paulreed paulreed is offline
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Default Re: Lethal Playlist Bug

could you somehow be altering the tempo and therefore moving your regoins....I had this problem with my first movie soundtrack, what a nightmare I had
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  #3  
Old 09-23-2009, 10:01 AM
Carl Kolchak Carl Kolchak is offline
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Default Re: Lethal Playlist Bug

Thanks, but no.

I'm editing dialogue, not music - all the tracks are sample based, not tick and I'm not going anywhere near tempo editing.

I think I should try this with locked regions - that really would be bad news
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  #4  
Old 09-23-2009, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Lethal Playlist Bug

Carl - I'm going to have this looked into today...
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  #5  
Old 09-23-2009, 04:19 PM
Carl Kolchak Carl Kolchak is offline
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Default Re: Lethal Playlist Bug

Hells Bells!

This does effect locked regions.

I've also established that the scrubber tool has no bearing on this, the same result occurs if you just use the selector tool to locate a position for the sync point.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
Carl - I'm going to have this looked into today...


Thanks for taking the time to look in to this Digi.

For the sake of the wider community, I hope this is a system specific phenomena, but if not do you think it will be addressed in a cs update for 7.3.1?

If it is an actual bug, is it limited to 7.3.1 or is it occurring in other PT versions?

Thanks again.
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  #6  
Old 09-23-2009, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Lethal Playlist Bug

I knew this sounded familiar. It's a bug in 7.3.1 and fixed in 8.0 and higher.

Unfortunately, according to the notes, the invasiveness was such that a CS fix for it was deemed too risky at the time.

I don't want to say that's a definitive that it can't be fixed, but given what I'm reading it would take some seriously convincing evidence/info/argument for engineering to consider trying to implement a fix for 7.3.1...

What are the playlists you're working with like? If I can understand how you're working, I may be able to figure out a decent workaround....
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  #7  
Old 09-23-2009, 05:26 PM
Carl Kolchak Carl Kolchak is offline
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Default Re: Lethal Playlist Bug

Thanks for digging deeper.

I'm curious, is this a widely known bug?

I've never encountered it before, and I've never seen any warnings / announcements on the Digi website, nor seen any other posts relating to it.


In this particular situation (and I probably should have used entirely separate tracks and just made them inactive) I have the raw audio files conformed according to the EDL on the first playlist - those regions are locked.

On the second playlist I have those audio regions cleaned up with the Strip Silence feature - these are also locked.

On the third playlist I have a duplicate of those cleaned regions that are not locked, these are available to be massaged around as the shoot was basically a dual system analogue setup (and you know how some picture editors can be when it comes to sync).

On subsequent playlists I have alternate versions, with alternate takes.

All the above get comped onto a "master" track.

The problem is that if I place a sync point on playlist 3 it knocks my locked safety copy on playlist 2 out of sync.

I only happened to notice this because in one outdoor scene, near a busy road, the editor has used the takes that look the best, but sound the worst, and I've had to reconstruct several phrases from alternate takes.

In the process of trying out different versions I built up quite a few extra playlists, and of course had to place or adjust sync points in regions that resided on several hidden playlists at once.

You can see how things got messy in that situation, but using playlists is a far more streamlined approach than using extra tracks - I only need to split out the important ones for a re-conform, and the session doesn't (usually) get out of hand.

If you do have any improved workflow suggestions, I'm all ears.

If you had told me that this was fixed in 7.4, that would finally give me a good enough reason to install it, as it's just been sitting there for nearly two years, but it looks like at some point I'm going to have to bypass it completely.

Ho-hum.
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  #8  
Old 09-23-2009, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Lethal Playlist Bug

No, not widely known, nor have there been many complaints (we've been to several studios, post houses, tv stations, etc. and have asked them what their top 10-20 problems are - this one didn't show up on anyone's list).

Evidence - 7.3.1 has been out for...how long? I'd have to check. Anyways - you just came across it now, so it's probably not something you're using on a daily basis, correct?

I'm NOT in any way trying to downplay this, just trying to be realistic.

I don't really have an elegant workaround, given your description. I suck! What I would probably do is break that playlist out to a new track to insert the sync points, but that's just me.

Stupid bug, pain in the rear for sure. Sorry I don't have anything more positive to give you...
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  #9  
Old 09-23-2009, 05:58 PM
Carl Kolchak Carl Kolchak is offline
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Default Re: Lethal Playlist Bug

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
Evidence - 7.3.1 has been out for...how long? I'd have to check. Anyways - you just came across it now, so it's probably not something you're using on a daily basis, correct?


No, you're absolutely right.

I mean I use sync points all the time on regions that have multiple copies in the same playlist, it's just rare that I have duplicates of those regions on hidden playlists - and on the occasions that I have, I was obviously happy with my editing on the main playlist to commit to that without comparing it to the alternatives.

The funny thing is, I was so baffled that I hadn't encountered this before, I was almost too embarrassed to post it publicly - I mean how could I not have encountered it before now.

But like you say, this does have the potential to be a major disaster, in music as well as in post - but it is quite possible that others have been effected by this without even realising it, because they too have commited to the playlist they're working on without having to compare it to their alternative edits.

By the way, I meant to ask:

Is this problem evident on Mac & PC , HD & LE?

Cheers! (I feel duty bound to bring this to the attention of the post forum now).
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  #10  
Old 09-23-2009, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Lethal Playlist Bug

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Kolchak View Post
No, you're absolutely right.

I mean I use sync points all the time on regions that have multiple copies in the same playlist, it's just rare that I have duplicates of those regions on hidden playlists - and on the occasions that I have, I was obviously happy with my editing on the main playlist to commit to that without comparing it to the alternatives.

The funny thing is, I was so baffled that I hadn't encountered this before, I was almost too embarrassed to post it publicly - I mean how could I not have encountered it before now.

But like you say, this does have the potential to be a major disaster, in music as well as in post - but it is quite possible that others have been effected by this without even realising it, because they too have commited to the playlist they're working on without having to compare it to their alternative edits.

By the way, I meant to ask:

Is this problem evident on Mac & PC , HD & LE?
Yes, unfortunately.

Quote:
Cheers! (I feel duty bound to bring this to the attention of the post forum now).


or should that be ??
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