Seeking Advice

[amajorguy]

Hi all,
I am humbly seeking your advice and or opinions. I am running into the limits of my current Pro Tools setup and need to spend some dough on upgrading in order to meet the demands of my clients. However, I am strapped for money (need a new roof on my house) and need to look for the most inexpensive path to Pro Tools HD (Native?)

Currently I am running Pro Tools 9 on a Mac Mini 2Ghz Intel Core I7 with 8gB of memory.
I have a Yamaha DM2000VCM with with five (5) eight track ADAT Lightpipe i/o paths. Thirty two i/o paths to the mac via a M Audio Lightbridge which uses Firewire 400 to connect to the mac.
I also have an Apollo quad. It has a Thunderbolt card though I have not yet upgraded the firmware.

I realize that there are variations in connectivity and how I can configure my current bits.

I see that I can purchase the AVID HD Native thunderbolt with Pro Tools 10 and 11 licencses on eBay for 2000.00 No AVID interface offered at this price point.

Will I he able to aggregate the Light Bridge DM2K combo and the Apollo without having the AVID interface in the system? Is this worth doing it like this?

What would you do to get into HD knowing what gear I have and that money is tight? I really appreciate any advice you can offer. Thanks so much.

[nst7]

Not sure I understand everything you're trying to do, but here's a couple of points:

1. The HD Native Thunderbolt unit is useless without also having an Avid HD interface connected to it. Without an HD interface, Protools won't even recognize the Thunderbolt unit, and will make you select an alternate interface, or the computer's built in output.

So unless you're buying the Thunderbolt interface just to get the HD software, it's a waste of money.

2. Without the Thunderbolt unit and an HD interface hooked up, you will still be limited to 32 in/32 out, even if using HD software.

3. If you do get the Thunderbolt unit, and an HD interface, it will not aggregate with anything else.

4. Avid authorized dealers are not allowed to sell just the Thunderbolt unit without bundling an HD interface. Those who are selling these are not Avid authorized dealers. They may just be people buying the bundled systems, and splitting up the pieces to sell separately. That doesn't mean they're bad, but it's just something to be aware of.

[amajorguy]

Exactly the kind of info I was seeking. I truly appreciate your taking the time to answer.
The most disturbing is that nothing will aggregate with investments I already have. Especially the Apollo.
Perhaps I'll just get Pro Tools 10 along with the Producer Pack and slowly migrate my work flow over to Reaper in the future.
Sometimes I can't stand Avid.

[YYR123]

I can't stand reapers io and mixer screen - I would go studio one.

Personally HD|N would be awesome with the front end like an Presonus 24.4.2

nst7 - been thinking about this setup and why would you need the low latency of a HD|N setup if all HP mixes were coming off the console?

[nst7]

Originally Posted by YYR123

I can't stand reapers io and mixer screen - I would go studio one.

Personally HD|N would be awesome with the front end like an Presonus 24.4.2

nst7 - been thinking about this setup and why would you need the low latency of a HD|N setup if all HP mixes were coming off the console?

Well, again, you would not be using Studio Live mixers, or anything else as a front end to HD Native, because it won't work. You would use the Studio Live mixer with the HD software that comes with it, and leave the HDN Thunderbolt in the corner to collect dust. If Studio Live is your interface, then that's your interface, not the HDN Thunderbolt unit.

Depending on your needs, this may be a great setup. And indeed, the monitoring from the console might be great for low latency. But again, you'd be buying the package to get the HD software, and the other stuff would be useless. The Thunderbolt unit must be used with an HD interface, and if you're using that, then you're not using the Studio Live Mixer, because there's no way to mix those.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by amajorguy

The most disturbing is that nothing will aggregate with investments I already have. Especially the Apollo.

.

But in practice interfaces rarely can be aggregated especially cross vendor.

Avid HD/TDM (aka digilink based) and third party compatible interfaces can be aggregated via the digilink interface card.

Some other PCIe card based interfaces can be aggregated.

Some Firewire interfaces can be daisy chained.

The UAD Apollo (not quad) and Apollo16 can be daisy chained with an identical model.

Software based aggregation via CoreAudio or ASIO4ALL rarely works reliably and is not officially supported by Avid, and only a few interface vendors claim to support it at all. I would run not walk away from ever wanting to do that. Which means no you cannot aggregate your Quad and another interface.

And as you are doing, the general, most reliable way of combining/expanding interfaces has been to use ADAT/SMUX. That may or may not be useful depending on exact needs and existing interfaces.

If money is tight why do you want to go to HD software at all? Is it just because you want more IO paths? As others have explained you only get that with Pro Tools HD software when used with HD/TDM interfaces. The other option here is to look at things like the UAD Apollo or Apollo 16 daisy chained or maybe the new Apogee Ensemble Thunderbolt or an Apogee symphony and use a different DAW like Logic Pro for tracking with more IO.

[Barry Johns]

You can get HDN/Omni/HD10/11 for 3300 with a 002 trade in, there are a couple dealers that will actually give you a 002. I was offered that by one dealer and heard of another.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

You can get HDN/Omni/HD10/11 for 3300 with a 002 trade in, there are a couple dealers that will actually give you a 002. I was offered that by one dealer and heard of another.

That won't help him if what he really need is IO count. It looks like he would need one or more HD IO and/or 192s.

Mmm or maybe it would help if he sold the omni and went and picked up some used 192s (assuming the preamp side is covered).

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by nst7

Well, again, you would not be using Studio Live mixers, or anything else as a front end to HD Native, because it won't work..

The point was you have to hit a preamp- all hd I/o's are line level. The console is your front end (but not connected to the computer) just like in the old days - when PT was just a tape machine

Even in the early 90's they never monitored off of PT, right? All HP mixes were coming off the console, not out of the 192's

[nst7]

Originally Posted by YYR123

The point was you have to hit a preamp- all hd I/o's are line level. The console is your front end (but not connected to the computer) just like in the old days - when PT was just a tape machine

Even in the early 90's they never monitored off of PT, right? All HP mixes were coming off the console, not out of the 192's

If your goal is to use the high quality conversion of the HD IO's, then this would make sense.


I'm trying to familiarize myself with the Studio Live mixer. I guess I'm confused about the direct outputs (the DB25's on the back). If they they are just analog pass through's, not going through the digital conversion, and you want to use the preamps going through the HD IO line ins, and the monitoring of the console, then you can use any analog mixer for that, so I'm not sure why you'd specifically want the Studiolive for that (unless it's something you already own).

If on the other hand, the preamps do go through the mixer's conversion, then you might as well use its firewire and let it be your interface.

I apologize, but I'm still confused on how you want to specifically use these products together.