Vocal problems for in ears

[bcs723]

I have a mixrack system and I am running monitors from FOH. I have several wedge mixes for speakers and such but the band is all on ears via Aviom fed by an Aviom output card.

All is well except that none of the vocalists are happy with the sound of their own vocal. Especially my lead singer. I know the majority of the problem is phase issues. Their inears are competing with house, stage and their own head volume. I have tried a bunch of remedies at no avail.

I'm just wondering how you guys are overcoming this problem. I'm about to lose my lead vocalist back to wedges, which is NOT an option for me, when I got him off his wedge was about 115db at his head level.

There has to be a fix out there...

[Tiginbna]

Double assign the vocal channels and make the second one for the ears only... NEVER the house. In ears are very small speakers, or armatures (depending on manufacturer) and what sounds good with paper speakers and compression drivers very seldom sounds good with IEM's. Be aware that they will share a the pre-amp section but channel info... EQ, verb sends, fader, plug ins, inserts, compression, Aviom, etc level will be completely independent. Personally I would give up other input channels to make this happen.

Hope this helps.

Tig

[bcs723]

Originally Posted by Tiginbna

Double assign the vocal channels and make the second one for the ears only... NEVER the house. In ears are very small speakers, or armatures (depending on manufacturer) and what sounds good with paper speakers and compression drivers very seldom sounds good with IEM's. Be aware that they will share a the pre-amp section but channel info... EQ, verb sends, fader, plug ins, inserts, compression, Aviom, etc level will be completely independent. Personally I would give up other input channels to make this happen.

Hope this helps.

Tig

Already doing this. It helps very little. I try to EQ the ear channel to his liking. But he says no matter what his vocal does not "cut". Everything else is great to him. This is the same for each vocalist.

Keep em coming...

[albee1952]

Maybe double assign and feed the IEM's with 2 channels. Use some solid compression on one track and mix together. Also, some musicians are not good at describing the REAL problem, so I would also try adding in some ambience with 1-2 room mics placed at the down-stage edge. What ultimately worked for one client was to actually show them what the knobs do and let them dial away at their own channel(s).

[dstagl]

Originally Posted by bcs723

I have a mixrack system and I am running monitors from FOH. I have several wedge mixes for speakers and such but the band is all on ears via Aviom fed by an Aviom output card.

All is well except that none of the vocalists are happy with the sound of their own vocal. Especially my lead singer. I know the majority of the problem is phase issues. Their inears are competing with house, stage and their own head volume. I have tried a bunch of remedies at no avail.

I'm just wondering how you guys are overcoming this problem. I'm about to lose my lead vocalist back to wedges, which is NOT an option for me, when I got him off his wedge was about 115db at his head level.

There has to be a fix out there...

What is in his ears mix? Do you have his input channel mixed with anything like the L/R or a group? Are you using any plugins on his input that feeds his ears? Can he get happy if his vocal is solo'ed in his ears? What are you hearing when you listen to his mix?

Dave

[TwoPort]

What kind of IEM's are being used? It sounds like they are not custom fitted if all that "outside" noise is getting in? Custom fitted silicone molds (Sensaphonics, Ultimate ears, etc.) will for sure isolate most outside noise and reduce clutter.... Also for singers, the custom molds that get past the second turn of the ear canal eliminate the "head sound"...

[Rob Warren]

for sure we need a lot more info on this setup.
Does each vocalist have their own mix or do they share?
The ear buds make a huge difference. What kind of ears are they using? All the same? What kind of tips are on the ear monitors?
Even if they can NOT get custom molds you can find ear tips that block out more sound than others.
The yellow foam tips block out quite a bit of sound as well as the triple flange sleeves. The smooth dome sleeves however will not block out enough sound a lot of times.
With singers you will have to boost their vocal in their ear way more than you think because of their jawbone and ear canal. So when you cue their mix up it may sound like they are so loud compared to other things in their mix but to them it's not. There is a term for this but I can't remember what it is.

As posted before what else is in their mix?

rob

[bcs723]

Originally Posted by dstagl

Are you using any plugins on his input that feeds his ears?

Dave

I am running a revibe plug inserted on the channel. I am using channel strip EQ and dynamics.

Will the plug make a difference? I have tried it with and without the plug and it doesn't change anything to him (other than adding verb) Doesn't make better or worse.

[bcs723]

Originally Posted by Rob Warren

for sure we need a lot more info on this setup.
Does each vocalist have their own mix or do they share?
The ear buds make a huge difference. What kind of ears are they using? All the same? What kind of tips are on the ear monitors?
Even if they can NOT get custom molds you can find ear tips that block out more sound than others.
The yellow foam tips block out quite a bit of sound as well as the triple flange sleeves. The smooth dome sleeves however will not block out enough sound a lot of times.
With singers you will have to boost their vocal in their ear way more than you think because of their jawbone and ear canal. So when you cue their mix up it may sound like they are so loud compared to other things in their mix but to them it's not. There is a term for this but I can't remember what it is.

As posted before what else is in their mix?

rob

The setup is this: They are each mixing their own with Aviom. All vocalists have independent vocal channels on the Aviom fed from the direct out of a separate "ears" processed channel to suit their liking. Those channels each have compression, EQ and reverb via an inserted revibe plug.
The Aviom Rack unit is feeding a Sennheiser Wireless EW300 iem unit.
They are using custom molds from Fidelity Custom Earphones (formerly Livewires). One bgv is using E3's with the yellow foam but will switch to custom soon.

I have talked with them extensively about their mix, they Pan everything except their vocal.

[Scott Fahy]

I run IEM's a lot and also teach an IEM class for Sennheiser at there Installed Sound Academy seminars. My approach would be to have the singer turn everything down in his mix except his own voice get the level high enough that he overcomes the occlusion than bring the other stuff up gradually. You may want to have him stagger pan things even more radically so the center is kept very open for his voice too.

I am not a big fan of compression for anything with ears especially there own voice. I use a limiter for protection (Impact would work nicely) some EQ to taste (theirs not mine). We use Starkey Pro Monitor double and triple driver and the EQ that everyone seems to have fallen on is this.
6db cut tight Q at 110, 5db cut medium Q at 375, 4 db cut medium Q at 1.2K and 3 db cut at 2.8K. I realize this is for a specific set of ears but with some work and experimenting you should be able to find an EQ that will make the ears your using sound great.
Scott