analog summing buss

[agent_k]

Has anyone used a dedicated summing buss rackmountable hardware like the Folcrom? How do these compare with the summing on a mid range mixer like a Mackie Onyx series or Allen Heath?

[DDM]

Hey I haven't used one in my studio however using a summing bus basically means going to analog which means now the mixers and the summing busses all share the same like qualities... Now the thing that you will be comparing in this case would be which has better preamps. For example Allen & Heath is who I was considering... Also another thing to look into is that mixing consoles allow you to eq and also pan on them before you send it back into protools... Now I will tell you this for what I started to do. As you know protools only plays back what you give it which means if you give it a great sound it plays back the same spitting image of what you gave it.... With that in my what I started to do was for example when it comes to background vocals that I have recorded into a session, instead of bouncing disk in protools, I simply send all my vocals to a stereo aux in protools with L2 maximizer and other plugins minus the reverb plugin. Then on that very same aux track I change the output from analog 1-2 to something like analog 3-4 which is routed by two physical patch cables to armed inputs 3-4 which is being re-recorded back into protools. Now when Im re-recording my background vocals back into protools I make sure that all the music tracks are muted during that recording time... Just so that I dont lose any more width and depth of my background vocals... Now of coarse that's why it pays to have a good mic pre so that when you are recording your vocal protools captures a great sound from the begining. So with that process being done you know have a stereo track of background vocals that sounds great that you didnt have to bounce to disk.... Now I also do the same thing to the music tracks once all the instruments are mixed so that at the end results I have a the following tracks:
(1)Lead vocal
(2)Background vocals (stereo track)
(3)Music (stereo fader)
Then I send it directly to an external Alesis Masterlink recording it at 96k and I burn it to cd on the masterlink at 44.1K.... The end result is going to be a great sound once it touches that masterlink... Also some plugins to consider on your vocal tracks is things like:
(1)L2 Maximizer by waves
(2)Antares Tube
(3)Rcomp (for smooth natural vocals)
(4)Fairchild 660(for agressive vocals)
(5)Sony Oxford Inflator (the truth)
These are a few things I use to help get the warm and analog sound... However this all depends on if you want to deal with an additional mixing console infront of you that doesnt even have motorized faders, or having to deal with a command 8 or 002 mixer along with all that... Or simply use a mixbus, or do what I do and keep your space as is but just add the Masterlink becuase if you ever use the bounce to disk option in protools, thats when the battle is lost... I hope this info helped at all...

The Track Box
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[agent_k]

Yes these are helpful techniques to consider. I wanted to know more specifically about the summing and busses, more than preamps and vocals, but still helpful.

The reason why a simple summing buss was attracticve is because it is passive, cause I am not concerned with adding more preamped inputs so much as getting a perfectly reproduced mix out onto a nice analog stereo pair back to my converter. The only way I will consider a console or mini-mixer with or without good preamps would be if the channels and busses are on discrete paths, so I wanted to know if these mixers available on the market offer the reported transparency of passive summing mixers. I am not even concerned about the preamp recording stage very much since I already have a Trident 2 channel mic pre in my chain. I am merely looking to handle the 8 outs from the 002. The fact remains that there are more mixer choices than dedicated summing buss choices, so I figured if mixers have separate dedicated busses, I can make use of those extra inputs somewhere else in my chain. My priority still lies with the ability to have a transparent analog buss, in which case I will probably be bypassing the preamps. Ideally I would like to split a 16 track mixer into two 8 channel groups onto two discreet stereo or 4 mono busses. I don't know if there is one? One to handle input and one to handle output. The preamps, british eq's and such on the new Mackie Onyx series are supposed to be top of the line ,and the Allen and Heath are what I was glancing at. Thanks again.

[DDM]

I read up on the Folcrom unit and from my understanding they said that it was a passive unit however it's not powerboard and you are going to lose some db in levels where you would have to send it to a stereo preamp or something just to make up at least +4db... Now summing busses will help your mixes of coarse however mixers without turning on preamps on the board make it just passive just the same... Now telling you what board to go with is another story because it all depends on the cicuitry in that board, just as well as the ones in other summing busses. So just find out which one you think you like best and then roll with it... As mentioned before the Allen and Heath would be a major improvement or if you have the money a Soundcraft Ghost is great... But for summming busses check out www.Dangerousmusic.com. Im not selling there product but they sound really good... Just remember in your summing you want the analog circuitry so if you can get it through a summing bus device or a mixer, either way they will both get the job done...I will tell you this, you better be sure as hell you're getting a good quality recording with your front end mic pre then everything you do after that with the summing bus or mixer will be an improvement...

[max cooper]

I mixed on a digi 002 that was connected to a Rosetta 800 and a D2Bus and it was nice. For my money, though, it wasn't nicer enough that I felt I had to run out and buy it right away.

I try to keep things sounding good going in with great rooms, mics, pres, converters, MUSICIANS, etc. and that seems to help when summing ITB. Of course it seems to help no matter what, but especially when summing ITB.

One great thing about PT's summing, if you buy PTLE, you've already got it. I figure there are lots of great sounding projects being mixed RIGHT NOW using PT's summing, so I'd better get busy.

[agent_k]

And what price range do you mean for your money? What made you think PT summing was inferior enough to mak the invstment in the first place? Do you still feel the same but it is a matter of money? Thanks