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  #11  
Old 07-31-2022, 05:21 PM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Can't Hear Hardware insert- Please Help! IO Pics and Video inside

Thoughts on this:
1-Hardware inserts MUST use matching IO. This means, if outputs 5&6 feed the SPX, it must come back in on inputs 5&6.
2-IO used for hardware inserts PROBABLY should be removed/deleted from the input and output tabs(not sure as I do not use hardware inserts).
3-If the SPX has SPDIF IO, that would probably be a better choice all around(but do get it working on analog first). SPDIF would side-step a round-trip set of conversion.
4-Depending on what you are using the SPX for, it might make more sense to simply send to it, and return it to a separate stereo AUX or AUDIO track(do this for reverb/delay type FX). That would not require any routing config beyond assigning a send to a pair of physical outputs. An AUDIO track set to Input Monitoring will act like an AUX track, but you can easily record the SPX return so it is rendered in the session(would seem a good idea, at least for archiving).

BTW, anything in your IO setup shown in italics is not a valid path and should be deleted/removed or corrected
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  #12  
Old 07-31-2022, 06:27 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Can't Hear Hardware insert- Please Help! IO Pics and Video inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by easyrider View Post
I defaulted all the IO
The screenshots you showed did not show a default state I/O.

Quote:
I have setup an insert in Studio one and Cubase 12 without issue.
So what? I don't care. You are not getting it to work in Pro Tools, which is why I was trying to step you through the common issues for problems with Pro Tools hardware inserts. For a start which part of Pro Tools I/O matching requirements are stricter than other DAWS here do you not understand. You've been told this three times now.

There is no rocket science here but you do need to do this properly. Very well described in the Pro Tools Reference Guide.

Almost all problems come down to not using correctly matched I/O pairs or having low latency monitoring enabled.

I might guess you have matching IO pairs from looking at an IO screen shor but I don't know what exactly you have connected So I've asked you what exact I/O you have connected to exactly what. You blew that off with the flippant answer as shown in the IO...

I asked you if low latency monitoring is enabled/told you to disable it. You did not answer about that.

This all would likely have been answered in one go around if you would have just clearly answered the questions I asked. Based on you not doing that I'm going to leave you to work this out yourself.
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  #13  
Old 08-01-2022, 05:49 AM
easyrider easyrider is offline
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Default Re: Can't Hear Hardware insert- Please Help! IO Pics and Video inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Thoughts on this:
1-Hardware inserts MUST use matching IO. This means, if outputs 5&6 feed the SPX, it must come back in on inputs 5&6.
Thanks

I have made sure the outputs and inputs are matching thanks.

On the Quantum Pro tools sees the driver as the main outs being outputs 1 and 2 so I did what that guy on the forum suggested and used the outputs 5 and 6 instead of 7 and 8 so they appear to PT as using the same number IO

Quote:
2-IO used for hardware inserts PROBABLY should be removed/deleted from the input and output tabs(not sure as I do not use hardware inserts).
3-If the SPX has SPDIF IO, that would probably be a better choice all around(but do get it working on analog first). SPDIF would side-step a round-trip set of conversion.
The SPX does not have SPDIF mate....But I still want to use my SPX as I enjoy some of the FX like Bamboo Room etc...

Quote:
4-Depending on what you are using the SPX for, it might make more sense to simply send to it, and return it to a separate stereo AUX or AUDIO track(do this for reverb/delay type FX). That would not require any routing config beyond assigning a send to a pair of physical outputs. An AUDIO track set to Input Monitoring will act like an AUX track, but you can easily record the SPX return so it is rendered in the session(would seem a good idea, at least for archiving).

BTW, anything in your IO setup shown in italics is not a valid path and should be deleted/removed or corrected

Ok cheers mate I'll have a look at how to create a send instead. Thanks for the input
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  #14  
Old 08-01-2022, 05:56 AM
easyrider easyrider is offline
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Default Re: Can't Hear Hardware insert- Please Help! IO Pics and Video inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
The screenshots you showed did not show a default state I/O.
Yeah I see that now. Thanks for pointing it out. As I say I'm pretty new to Pro tools so its all a learning curve for me,



Quote:
So what? I don't care. You are not getting it to work in Pro Tools, which is why I was trying to step you through the common issues for problems with Pro Tools hardware inserts. For a start which part of Pro Tools I/O matching requirements are stricter than other DAWS here do you not understand. You've been told this three times now.
I was just highlighting it wasn't a cabling or hardware routing issue so to keep my sanity I tried in the 2 DAWS I mentioned.


I now understand that Pro Tools I/O matching requirements are stricter than other DAWS


Quote:
There is no rocket science here but you do need to do this properly. Very well described in the Pro Tools Reference Guide.

Almost all problems come down to not using correctly matched I/O pairs or having low latency monitoring enabled.

I might guess you have matching IO pairs from looking at an IO screen shot but I don't know what exactly you have connected So I've asked you what exact I/O you have connected to exactly what. You blew that off with the flippant answer as shown in the IO...

I asked you if low latency monitoring is enabled/told you to disable it. You did not answer about that.

This all would likely have been answered in one go around if you would have just clearly answered the questions I asked. Based on you not doing that I'm going to leave you to work this out yourself.
Ok no worries thanks for taking the time to respond. I can totally understand your frustration at my responses...I think I just needed nursing through as I feel a tad daunted by the complexity of things when I have used other DAWS.
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Mic Pre's Focusrite ISA One/ DAV Electronics BG1/ Joe Meek VC3
Guitars and Instrumentation:Gibson Les Paul Zebrawood/Fender USA Telecaster/Fender Deluxe Strat/ Martin OM-18V/
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  #15  
Old 08-01-2022, 06:00 AM
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Emi Emi is online now
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Default Re: Can't Hear Hardware insert- Please Help! IO Pics and Video inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
Yeah, I see it. Try to default everything in I/O menu, maybe there´s a wrong named path....
As I said in my post…
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  #16  
Old 08-01-2022, 08:06 AM
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K Roche K Roche is offline
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Default Re: Can't Hear Hardware insert- Please Help! IO Pics and Video inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by easyrider View Post


Have I missed something?
Yes You have missed that your I/O offset , is set up backwards from what the "the guy suggested "

He shows his Input as 3-4 and his Output 5-6 . In other words it is his Output that is offset and increased by 1 set of numbers .... You are showing your Input as the offset set increased by one set of numbers
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Last edited by K Roche; 08-01-2022 at 08:16 AM.
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  #17  
Old 08-01-2022, 08:38 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: Can't Hear Hardware insert- Please Help! IO Pics and Video inside

Just for kicks, have you tried going to the IN 5/6 on the Presonus? Leaving PT settings as is, just changing the output cable of the SPX to the input 5/6.

Besides that I'm confused by the relabeling and moving of the output assignments. The left row is just the local names of the outputs, the top column headers are the outputs PT sees. So 1 & 2 are assigned "Main Out" on the Quantum leaving 3&4 as the physical line out 1-2 correct? Yet you have it named "Line Out 3-4". Presumably so it matches the PT number but that won't match up with the hardware output and it shorts you a pair of outputs with nothing assigned (9 & 10 which should correspond to the physical line out 7-8).

It's not really a PT problem per se, Presonus gave 10 line outputs and only numbered 8 of them.
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  #18  
Old 08-01-2022, 09:22 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Can't Hear Hardware insert- Please Help! IO Pics and Video inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by easyrider View Post
Yeah I see that now. Thanks for pointing it out. As I say I'm pretty new to Pro tools so its all a learning curve for me,

I was just highlighting it wasn't a cabling or hardware routing issue so to keep my sanity I tried in the 2 DAWS I mentioned.

I now understand that Pro Tools I/O matching requirements are stricter than other DAWS

Ok no worries thanks for taking the time to respond. I can totally understand your frustration at my responses...I think I just needed nursing through as I feel a tad daunted by the complexity of things when I have used other DAWS.
No excuse my curtness, I was dealing with other issues on the weekend, and just could not spend time on this with you.

The better way of saying this is almost every problem that happens with no signal through a hardware insert with Pro Tools is because of the silly 1:1 IO port pairing that it uses. Extremely non flexible but that is how it is. Like it's so frustrating that almost every occurrence is ultimately caused by this, and it's something else confusing folks when they think they have stuff set up correctly but it comes back to this pairing not being correct. So really really try to check out you have paired I/O.

And to the point that I really would stop with anything more complex and create a new totally trivial session (i.e. no track inputs used for anything) and just one mono pre-recorded audio track with a hardware insert on it. Delete and default all IO. And just use a straight through audio cable as the insert "device" to troubleshoot... and even better for chasing signals/working out what is going on you can plug a set of analog headphones through a mono adapter (e.g. so it powers only one side of the headphone), or a small speaker connected to a cable. you can probe the insert outputs to check if they have signal. Or you can drive an AC signal from signal gen though the insert and probe the insert outputs with a multimeter and find exactly to what Physical IO stuff is going.

The reason to make sure you were not using aggregates is if people do then it's easier to get confused about the IO numbering... Pro Tools then requires you match the IO number in the aggregate not the individual sub-interfaces.

Now my mention of LLM may have confused things, if you have an active record monitoring/input monitoring through an insert and turn on LLM the insert is bypassed just like a software plugin insert, meaning you would alway hear signal it's just not going though the physical insert. The point of mentioning that is not that it will cause no signal conditions at least in simplest cases, but it will cause no processing though the hardware insert, and it's probably the second most confusing thing with hardware inserts and just confuses folks so much that I wanted you to make sure LLM is of in anything you do. And sometimes when folks talk about hardware inserts we don't know if the insert is on a track, on an aux from an input, on a aux from a send from a track, etc. and so it helps to clarify that (in some of those cases LLM can disable the send so in that case LLM will make the insert not work). All good reasons to always troubleshoot signal flows with LLM disabled.

Another confusion I've seen with folks is if they are using hardware monitoring in an interface and turn on a hardware insert... the hardware monitoring can do things like make it appear as if signal is going through the hardware insert when it might not be (e.g. the IO pairs really don't match), or you may have two paths, hardware monitoring and hardware insert and maybe some nasty phase stuff happening. All causes total confusion and tail chasing, been there myself. But IIRC your interface does not have hardware monitoring so that won't be an issue.

---

Once you have this working you will need to look at latency, Pro Tools should automatically correct for the insert latency caused by the interfaces input and output conversion latency and buffer sizes getting signal to there, but it won't correct for the latency for the signal going though the outboard processor itself, and it does not have a ping function. So you can look up latency specs, or measure with ping with another DAW or measure by hand with pro Tools and enter that latency in ms in the Setup>IO>Insert page.
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  #19  
Old 08-02-2022, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: Can't Hear Hardware insert- Please Help! IO Pics and Video inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post
Just for kicks, have you tried going to the IN 5/6 on the Presonus? Leaving PT settings as is, just changing the output cable of the SPX to the input 5/6.

Besides that I'm confused by the relabeling and moving of the output assignments. The left row is just the local names of the outputs, the top column headers are the outputs PT sees. So 1 & 2 are assigned "Main Out" on the Quantum leaving 3&4 as the physical line out 1-2 correct? Yet you have it named "Line Out 3-4". Presumably so it matches the PT number but that won't match up with the hardware output and it shorts you a pair of outputs with nothing assigned (9 & 10 which should correspond to the physical line out 7-8).

It's not really a PT problem per se, Presonus gave 10 line outputs and only numbered 8 of them.
Given I do not have a Presonus interface I am just (assuming) based on what the replies in the Presonus Forum (that the OP linked) and what the screenshots from that forum are showing .

But first I am guessing the OP did not relabel or move the outputs I am assuming that is how the Quantum outputs show by default (given the screen shots from the "guy" from the Presouns forum shows exactly the same Outputs configuration--see screen shots below

As I said I think the only issue is that the OP has reversed the PT I/O setup compared to what (and how) the guy in the Presonus forum is showing as the way to compensate for the Output offset. (in the PT I/O setup)

That is the OP has his Input as 7-8 and the Output as 5-6 and it should be reversed with his Input as 5-6 and his Output as 7-8 as per the screen shots below ( which are the Inputs are 3-4 and 5-6 BUT the relative offset for the Outputs are one number set higher )

According to these shots Inputs are 3-4 and 5-6 ,,, And the Outputs offsets are one set higher to 5-6 and 7-8 where the OP has his reversed from that

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  #20  
Old 08-02-2022, 02:51 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: Can't Hear Hardware insert- Please Help! IO Pics and Video inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by K Roche View Post
Given I do not have a Presonus interface I am just (assuming) based on what the replies in the Presonus Forum (that the OP linked) and what the screenshots from that forum are showing .

But first I am guessing the OP did not relabel or move the outputs I am assuming that is how the Quantum outputs show by default (given the screen shots from the "guy" from the Presouns forum shows exactly the same Outputs configuration--see screen shots below
I don't have a Quantum either but the default should have them all assigned, they would just be shifted in number due to Main 1-2 taking over what would be Line Out 1-2. OP's (and the Presonus forum poster) has an empty assignment under 9-10 and that does not make sense to me. That's leaving the hardware Line Out 7-8 unpatchable.

Otherwise I think we're saying the same thing. The input pair should be "one less" than the output pair. That's why I think he needs to patch the output of the SPX into Line In 5-6 (real 5-6 on the back of the Quantum not whatever the I/O says).
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