Source-Connect cross-platform compatibility???

[EGS]

I asked on the Windows section, but perhaps someone here can help me. I'm running Source-Connect on Windows with Pro Tools. Still not working...

The messy details: I can connect to echo48mono and hear my return with delay as expected. At this point Source Connect tech support says I'm all good. However ... Mac users often use the Mac-only "Source-Stream" method for connection. This "feature" breaks cross-platform compatibility! According to SC tech support, cross-platform compatibility is available if the Mac user opens their router ports with port forwarding, rather than using Source-Stream. SC tech support actually told me (!) that each & every Mac user I cannot connect with needs to contact SC tech support (!) and "fix" their router ports - which is a non-trivial router-specific process. The first two Mac users I tried to connect with do NOT have their ports forwarded & have no desire to alter their current stable (albeit Mac-to-Mac only) workflow setup - nor do I feel they should have to. In my opinion, Source Connect has a serious cross-platform compatibility issue on their hands.

Question: Are ANY Windows Source-Connect users here able to connect to Mac users? Please explain. Thanks!


EDIT: I have had extensive interaction with SC tech support, and they say my Windows setup is fine. So far they simply insist I must ask my Mac users to alter their working setup to accommodate cross-platform work as I described above. I cannot ask users to do this. Especially when the VO is booked and the session dies due to above failure to connect...

[gives]

Originally Posted by EGS

I asked on the Windows section, but perhaps someone here can help me. I'm running Source-Connect on Windows with Pro Tools. Still not working...

The messy details: I can connect to echo48mono and hear my return with delay as expected. At this point Source Connect tech support says I'm all good. However ... Mac users often use the Mac-only "Source-Stream" method for connection. This "feature" breaks cross-platform compatibility! According to SC tech support, cross-platform compatibility is available if the Mac user opens their router ports with port forwarding, rather than using Source-Stream. SC tech support actually told me (!) that each & every Mac user I cannot connect with needs to contact SC tech support (!) and "fix" their router ports - which is a non-trivial router-specific process. The first two Mac users I tried to connect with do NOT have their ports forwarded & have no desire to alter their current stable (albeit Mac-to-Mac only) workflow setup - nor do I feel they should have to. In my opinion, Source Connect has a serious cross-platform compatibility issue on their hands.

Question: Are ANY Windows Source-Connect users here able to connect to Mac users? Please explain. Thanks!

I recommend contacting SC tech support. They are great. Robert Marshall or Rebekah Wilson.. Not sure why they would not do the port forwarding? It's pretty simple. I did it with help with Xfininity here. I also got rid of that stupid Time Capsule, which is dog show and got a new Netgear Nighthawk, NOT those MESH routers! They do not work.
G

[EGS]

Originally Posted by gives

I recommend contacting SC tech support. They are great. Robert Marshall or Rebekah Wilson.. Not sure why they would not do the port forwarding? It's pretty simple. I did it with help with Xfininity here. I also got rid of that stupid Time Capsule, which is dog show and got a new Netgear Nighthawk, NOT those MESH routers! They do not work.
G

SC tech support says I'm all good. I have done port forwarding. The issue is that some (most?) Mac users do not (see above). SC tech support claims I should have these Mac users I may encounter contact SC tech support. I do not want to ask my connections to alter their working (albeit mac to mac only) setup to accommodate my Win setup. So I'm stuck. That is the ONLY "solution" SC tech support is offering... I have had a LOT of contact with SC tech support regarding this issue. Very frustrating.

[EGS]

Anybody? Thanks!

[EGS]

I just posted the below on a Source Elements forum:

Hi!

I’ve had extensive interaction with SE tech support. Great & knowledgeable! They assure me my Windows SC setup is fine. However, I am experiencing connectivity issues with Mac users. Real-world use scenario: After days/weeks of planning & meetings, the ad agency producers & copywriters are finally booked/connected via Zoom or Teams & are standing-by ready to direct VO talent. The VO (Mac SC user) is booked. My studio (Windows SC user) is booked for record/edit. I connect to VO, can receive audio, but – BAM – my talkback fails to reach VO. (Yes, my DAW routings are correct & I send/receive with echo48mono as expected). The experienced VO talent assures everyone his SC setup has been working great with all other contacts, yet my studio cannot properly connect. The session is a bust.



The solution SC tech support has kindly offered is that the Mac user should contact SC tech support to properly setup port forwarding on the router and disable Source Stream. Great long-term fix, but not a quick viable solution able to save a current session. Also it is not really a viable solution in that the Mac user should NOT be asked to change in-any-way a stable rig, originally setup/tested by SE tech support. It’s been working well for quite some time; they are happy with it & it works great (albeit Mac-to-Mac only).



I have encountered this issue with 2 established Mac users. The root cause of this problem, in my opinion, is SE does not REQUIRE all users – at the time of initial setup – to properly setup port forwarding rather than use (Mac-only) Source Stream.



Perhaps there is no quick viable fix. I can, however, envision two long-term solutions. 1) All users must be required to enable port forwarding at the time of initial setup. It is currently NOT a requirement. Making this a setup requirement would ensure cross-platform compatibility for all users. 2) Alternately, make Source Stream accessible to Mac & Windows users.



Help! Thank you.

[audiobob]

Originally Posted by EGS

The root cause of this problem, in my opinion, is SE does not REQUIRE all users – at the time of initial setup – to properly setup port forwarding rather than use (Mac-only) Source Stream.

I think you've answered your question. As long as Source Stream works out of the gate with some Mac users, without setting up port forwarding, then they'll probably think they're good and call it a day and not dig into their router settings. From what I understand, Source Stream is a sort of a back up way to connect if something goes awry. Maybe before connecting with a SC voice talent, one of the criteria is having their SC set up for port forwarding. That may be on the agency side when they choose a talent via the talent agent.

Could this also be a difference between SC Pro and Standard? Most VO talent have the Standard version.

I'm on a Mac with port forwarding for SC if you'd like to do a test. Just pm me.

[its2loud]

Source Connect support is correct and you should ask the Mac based studios to setup source connect correctly with port forwarding. After all, you did correctly and it’s not your fault they aren’t connecting to you.

There is no workaround unless you have an iMac or othe Mac computer around to run Source Connect on and tie the two computers together with audio cables.

[Vedat]

Lately, most of my connections fall back to Source Stream because the other side didn't bother to set it up properly. I find that a Stream connection bugs out after about 40 minutes and you have to connect again.

Speaking of Echo test. I always do one before any connection. A couple of months ago I did an echo test and instead of hearing myself, I heard about three people having a good old chin wag and having a laugh amongst themselves.

[Hugh-H]

Hello EGS,

I understand your frustration, the following comments you may already be aware of and I hope you're not insulted. For you network experts some of these notes are simplified for this post. We use quite a few of these types of remote production tools remoting announcers, sweeteners, directors, ADs, media operators, graphics operators, etc.

SC originally - and presently without Source-Stream - is peer-to-peer. One SC computer talking "directly" to another SC computer over the internet. This means you cannot connect directly over the internet without port forwarding through routers, by definition routers hide you and it's the only way a peer-to-peer connection can work. If you've ever used Unity Connect it also is only peer-to-peer.

And if it's any consolation - Source-Stream is not the most reliable. I have better luck with peer-to-peer or another product.

At some point with -I think- v3.9 they came out with Source-Stream, a relay server which is how most folks think of streaming audio. It's convenient. This means each SC computer reaches out to the Source-Stream relay which then links them so no port forwarding is necessary. It's a feature of the Mac version only unfortunately, Source-Elements doesn't seem to care if it's not Mac or the daw isn't ProTools. Quite some time ago we built our own relay server for SC and Unity Connect using an AWS implementation. It worked but we decided not to continue with the project as more of our production folks figured out router configuration. For those that don't I remote in and change the router for them, then change it back or show them how.

Source-Connect Mac - either peer-to-peer or relay server (Source-Stream).
Source-Connect Windows - peer-to-peer only.
Unity Connect - only peer-to-peer.
SessionLinkPro - relay server
AudioMovers Listen-To - relay server
Sonobus - peer-to-peer

If I understand your concern it's asking Mac users to change their routers because when they connect with Mac studios it's "all fine". One solution is for you to get a cheap used laptop Mac and run SC with Source-Stream. One often-but-not-always solution - open your ports as you need to and test with another engineer and get it working. Then have your Mac talent turn off Source-Stream and connect to you instead of you connecting to them. Sometimes opening only 1 end works with peer-to-peer if the originator - Mac user without port forwarding - reaches out to you - with ports forwarded. This isn't a guarantee but it can sometimes work due to most home routers allowing unfettered "established and related" traffic. They won't necessarily pass the network test but may be able to connect to you, on a corporate or enterprise network probably not.

And one more solution - use SessionLinkPro and Chrome. Easy.

Good luck,
Hugh

[MIKEROPHONICS]

If you do your port forwarding, it's a faster connection than Source Stream.

I did my own - it's really easy (and I am not the network police), and if you are daunted by this, then the Source Elements Support folks will help you through it.

Source Elements now offer certification course via their Academy - which is ideal for smaller studios or VO artists with their own home studio to get a better understanding of what's going on and make sure they get the most out of their set up. Really, if you earn your living doing this, then this should be a complete no brainer.

Pony up peeps - and get professional!