8.0.3 - It must be Christmas!

[relaxo]

The facts as I see them:

-A central tool in our jobs is Pro Tools HD.
-We're professionals in here and we've made our livings off of this Avid hardware, our earnings ranging from $50k-1M over the HD years.
-Crossgrades are so relatively inexpensive these days, most of us will pay $1k-$3k for the exchange.
-That's a no-brainer great cost/earnings ratio in anyone's book.
-Pro Tools HD and the accessories are a steal compared to ownership/renter-ship and maintenance of a Studer and an SSL desk, etc and can out-power that path in most ways.
-Pro Tools is the best system for our work, that's why we use it. Digidesign worked hard and did well.
-Avid needs our money now, they need us behind them.
-Avid is tight on resources and should not develop for the long-expired PPC anymore.
-To quote another poster, PPCs are slugs from the past and technology always moves ahead.
-But Avid morally should leave PPCers with a bug-free PT PPC "8.0.2."

[Alécio Costa]

I totally agree with "Relaxo" but have all the bugs been solved?
I did not see the 4 or 5 bugs we occasionaly have here being described at the PDF.

[Sean Russell]

Originally Posted by relaxo

The facts as I see them:

-A central tool in our jobs is Pro Tools HD.
-We're professionals in here and we've made our livings off of this Avid hardware, our earnings ranging from $50k-1M over the HD years.
-Crossgrades are so relatively inexpensive these days, most of us will pay $1k-$3k for the exchange.
-That's a no-brainer great cost/earnings ratio in anyone's book.
-Pro Tools HD and the accessories are a steal compared to ownership/renter-ship and maintenance of a Studer and an SSL desk, etc and can out-power that path in most ways.
-Pro Tools is the best system for our work, that's why we use it. Digidesign worked hard and did well.
-Avid needs our money now, they need us behind them.
-Avid is tight on resources and should not develop for the long-expired PPC anymore.
-To quote another poster, PPCs are slugs from the past and technology always moves ahead.
-But Avid morally should leave PPCers with a bug-free PT PPC "8.0.2."

Great post. I still don't feel bad for AVID. I noticed that on the 8.0.3 splash start up screen the new logo and the 'Digidesign IS AVID'.

We have traded in three Mix systems and swapped HD cards on two other systems. Since '06, when I came on here, we've brought in 4 HD systems, beefed up the lonely HD1 that was already here, and replaced 4 G4's with MacPro's and a G5, and have purchased (5) 192's, (2) 96's, and (4) Sync I/O's. Approx 35k in plugs, easily. So you can see why I don't feel so bad. On the other hand, all of that STILL can't step to the cost of our SSL and Studer. Sure we used to have 4 Studers, but still. Digi is doing ok. Considering almost every client that comes in has an LE system, it would seem that they're moving products. I have a hard time feeling for them - even in the economic climate.

Fix 8 for PPC! I know one day I'll have to yank the G5, get a new MacPro, and play musical MP's to get the best one in Studio A, etc. But until then, that G5 cuts well in Studio D, and it sucks that intel gets 75 fixes and PPC gets.... None!!!

[Bob Olhsson]

FWIW while folks gripe about Avid/Digi, it's really Apple who pulled the rug out from under you some time ago by orphaning PPC and PCI cards.

You can still buy a state of the art PeeCee with PCI slots that Avid/Digi fully supports.

[music]

Same boat here. Would be on Intel machine now if the crossgrade were more affordable. Digi/Avid, give us a reasonable crossgrade price now! Or increase the power of a new card and charge us a couple grand for the upgrade. Why is the crossgrade so expensive? Please explain. From what I can tell it is literally the exact same card with a different slot size.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[Bob Olhsson]

Let's see, the last 7.4 update was just four months ago and there was a 7.3 update a month after 8.0 was released. Why would one not expect to see several more 8.01 CS updates over at least the next year if not longer?

[PhilBuckle]

Originally Posted by music

Same boat here. Would be on Intel machine now if the crossgrade were more affordable. Digi/Avid, give us a reasonable crossgrade price now! Or increase the power of a new card and charge us a couple grand for the upgrade. Why is the crossgrade so expensive? Please explain. From what I can tell it is literally the exact same card with a different slot size.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Same.
I've already found the new Mac and I'm ready to pull the trigger.
I'm waiting for an upgrade price from Avid. If it doesn't come I'm going to keep using what I have for the next year or buy the Mac and use it as a Logic slave.

[volodia]

Originally Posted by relaxo

The facts as I see them:

-We're professionals in here and we've made our livings off of this Avid hardware, our earnings ranging from $50k-1M over the HD years.
-Crossgrades are so relatively inexpensive these days, most of us will pay $1k-$3k for the exchange.
-That's a no-brainer great cost/earnings ratio in anyone's book.
-Pro Tools HD and the accessories are a steal compared to ownership/renter-ship and maintenance of a Studer and an SSL desk, etc and can out-power that path in most ways.

-PT is not the only thing we have to spend money on .
- The price we charge ( and the market) have nothing to do with the prices of the Studer/SSL times .
In fact studio time is now cheaper in absolute value ( not even taking into account the depreciation of the money ) than it was at the beginning of the eighties ( and there has been inflation since then .

[AURORA4DTH]

Bob,
Because digi said they will monitor 8.0.1 for PPC users and decide later basically.
We are looking for a confirmation that we will get what we paid for when we bought 8 a stable working environment.
Digi just needs to let us know that we will be taken care of not "we may or may not update you"
When i was working today i was pissed all day. I Still had the same usual problems I always do and just kept thinking "man I wish I had that update"

I also teach pro tools for a college so imagine how crappy the pro tools system looks to these kids when there are so many glitches.

These kids are trying to change track sizes one track at a time and they are wondering "Why the Hell are all the tracks moving, i dont even have a group on. Come on this is just some basic stuff I am talking about fixing. Digi Do your job.

[sleadley]

This is a complicated issue for Digi and Digi Users alike. I suggest that the cost of the software upgrades is part and parcel of the High cost of the Card upgrades. But If I cast my mind back to when we had a 24TK Otari MTR 90, we paid $400.00 A MONTH in maintenance and every so often we had to replace the heads at $10,000.00 including fitting. Now I know life is completely different today, costs have plummeted and so have the fees that we can charge, but we still have to upgrade.
I had a situation recently where a client had driven a very hard bargain on price only to get to the Mix room and criticise the fact the we had 2 G5's and no intel Machines (not that it would have made any difference to the final product as we were happily running PT 8 with our older Chassis and PCI cards) Also, when we had a big job we upgraded our Main studio G5's to PCIe (I could see the writing on the wall) and now all we have to do is upgrade the Mac to an Intel when these stop working. No I get that people are getting paid less and less but we have to fight for the work and we have to fight for a reasonable return on investment which should include funds for upgrades. (just like putting new tires on a car). If we don't upgrade every few years then it is bad for everybody, You, Me and Avid.
I for one fight tooth and nail to get a good and reasonable price for our equipment, but it does get harder and harder, particularly when a competitor say "yes I have Pro Tools" and you find out they undercut you by a significant amount because they use LE and do it all at Home. For the most part we are able to mount a case for our editing services but it is hard as the gap between TDM and LE narrows (however it is still very significant for our Film and Scoring work).
The new version of Pro Tools on SL is great and a happy step forward, and we must look forward, not back. If we want Digi and Avid to keep being profitable so that they can develop the great products (and Yes I have been a long long time user of Pro Tools) then we have to suck it up and get the money from somewhere. If Digi/Avid reduces cross-grades, I would be happy with that, but I think we are really forgetting that we are all in this here boat together and times a tough for both sides.
my 2c
Simon L.