New Licensing

[nigelpry]

Originally Posted by noiseboyuk

Well, that's not quite how I'd put it. As much discussed, I don't know of any post houses that have even gone to 11 - it's not so much that they're complaining, it's just completely irrelevant to them. They just keep using what works.

Incidentally, I think they're right. I've been using PT11 for the past three weeks to do some intensive premixing. There are some gains here and there - some background tasks are quicker, offline bounce to QT is a joy. But the general stability isn't yet good enough. I've isolated one rogue AAX plugin - Oxford Dynamics - but even without that I'm getting random quicktime freezes and stutters, AAF import trouble, plus some graphical and transport issues. I've pretty much decided that come the final mixes with client, I'll revert to PT10. And probably going forward, I'll just use 11 for the offline tasks which are quicker, and I'll move back 10 for most of my day to day work too.

Back to the issue at hand, eventually post houses will have to move on - critical plugins will become AAX 64 only, they might value Avid Everywhere, far too early to say. But to build a business plan on such shaky foundations.... well, let's call it brave.

I can think of a few 'brave' generals whose battle strategies led to their own deaths, and many of the troops around them. Let's hope what we're seeing in Avid's case does actually amount to an as yet not wholly revealed strategy, rather than a desperate thrashing around masquerading as strategy.

[seanbil]

Originally Posted by ronwasserman

I don't think they care about that part of the market anymore.

For sure. That became even more evident the day they decided to price a new Pro Tools | Crippleware license at $899 and then ask for an additional $299 every year after just to maintain it. If they were serious about conquering the entire market, they'd have priced it accordingly and/or made it a lot less crippled.

As much as they may not want to admit, this software is for post and might as well be called "Post Tools". I think the days of it going back to being touted for what it really is rather than what it is not is probably a lot closer on the horizon than what they'd want us to believe. As another pointed out earlier, the market will determine its ultimate fate and not the will of the marketers.

For the past six years Avid pretty much spent the entire time rebuilding the wheel for the benefit of post, meanwhile, its competitors steamed along building innovative tools for artists. There's definitely room for both, but it's getting a lot clearer where things are heading for PT from where I stand. It is what it is. So I'll probably continue to use my perpetual 10 & CPT licenses for as far as they'll take me and then just let them fade to black.

[Righty27]

Originally Posted by seanbil

For sure. That became even more evident the day they decided to price a new Pro Tools | Crippleware license at $899 and then ask for an additional $299 every year after just to maintain it. If they were serious about conquering the entire market, they'd have priced it accordingly and/or made it a lot less crippled.

As much as they may not want to admit, this software is for post and might as well be called "Post Tools". I think the days of it going back to being touted for what it really is rather than what it is not is probably a lot closer on the horizon than what they'd want us to believe. As another pointed out earlier, the market will determine its ultimate fate and not the will of the marketers.

For the past six years Avid pretty much spent the entire time rebuilding the wheel for the benefit of post, meanwhile, its competitors steamed along building innovative tools for artists. There's definitely room for both, but it's getting a lot clearer where things are heading for PT from where I stand. It is what it is. So I'll probably continue to use my perpetual 10 & CPT licenses for as far as they'll take me and then just let them fade to black.

For the sake of good order (!), it's actually $199 per year :)

Evidently, selling essentially the same product, without adding HD features to 'vanilla' which e.g. Cubase 8 versions offer for less $, at a higher cost and with less 'popular' licence conditions is unlikely to help increase sales numbers!

If they ant to get out of the artist 'space', there must be easier and more effective strategies. However, if they are going to maintain a different version (non-HD), the sales channels, support, etc. for this sector, why not differentiate it with features that would limit its use in the post arena (e.g. DSP/HDX, number of channels, surround, etc.), throw in the remaining HD features to let 'vanilla' compete without its hands tied, and keep normal upgradeable licences without support? Price accordingly ... and maybe numbers would increase instead?!

[seanbil]

Originally Posted by Righty27

For the sake of good order (!), it's actually $199 per year :)

My goodness, did I get it wrong all this while? I thought the $199 was a promotional price for this year alone. Anyway, much apologies to the Avid sales force on that ever long quest to simplify things. I guess I muddied the waters just a tad. Thanks to Righty27 for the correction. But still... $199 or $299... seems like a burden to me nonetheless. j/s

[ronwasserman]

Originally Posted by noiseboyuk

Well, that's not quite how I'd put it. As much discussed, I don't know of any post houses that have even gone to 11 - it's not so much that they're complaining, it's just completely irrelevant to them. They just keep using what works.

Larson is on 11. WB was going to make the move this summer but since they've had no down time, there is no time to make the switch....according to the guys I work with there.

[ronwasserman]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

I can think of a few 'brave' generals whose battle strategies led to their own deaths, and many of the troops around them. Let's hope what we're seeing in Avid's case does actually amount to an as yet not wholly revealed strategy, rather than a desperate thrashing around masquerading as strategy.

In the long run you never know, but in the short run, the stock is exploding and they get re-listed on Monday. Institutions always know more about the inner workings of a company than you and I.

[Dnnspv]

Originally Posted by ronwasserman

I don't think they care about that part of the market anymore.

Agreed.

This all comes down to a simple truth. Steinberg's first product was Steinberg Pro 16, a MIDI sequencer. Logic, which started as Notator, was made for MIDI/electronic music. For Digidesign it was Soundtools for audio.

This totally explains the market today. Most movie composers and professional producers prefer to do MIDI composition, now with VI's, in Cubase and Logic (and other MIDI sequencer focused DAWs) and deal with audio in Pro Tools. Digidesign implementing m-audio, Instrument Tracks, Axiom MIDI keyboard, Structure Goliath and all the wonderful Phil Jackson AIR IEP tutorial videos did absolutely nothing to change this.

It doesn't matter who engineers audio in Cubase and Logic, those native products got where they are and remain there because of superior MIDI composition. It doesn't matter who uses Pro Tools for MIDI, it got where it is and remains because of superior HD audio.

Why is LE, now vanilla here?

In today's world, only those in audio schools are serious about becoming future PT HD engineers. They won't give Avid much revenue. They will learn at school on a HD system they did not buy, use vanilla on a student discount, then intern and maybe get hired in a studio with another HD system they did not buy. If they become exceptionally better than the competition, and financially able and lucky enough to open their own studio, then they will install PT HD.

Who then mostly uses vanilla software? Local bands and hobbyists barely making a living, if at all, recording audio in vanilla on an incompatible computer, some moaning on forums that PT sucks and they are going to Logic or Cubase. Avid wants them to pay 899 USD plus subscription or rent vanilla because after all these years ONLY the ongoing subscription will finally give them the vanilla they've been waiting for? Give me a break.

There is no demand for the vanilla. This new model boils down to being acceptable for HD facilities because the upgrade costs are much higher than vanilla, making it a much greater value, especially if there are multiple rooms with HD. Vanilla will be allowed to be purchased but no group will purchase it enough to make it relevant. Avid will then be cleared to focus exclusively on the high-end market.

[ronwasserman]

Originally Posted by Dnnspv

Agreed.

This all comes down to a simple truth. Steinberg's first product was Steinberg Pro 16, a MIDI sequencer. Logic, which started as Notator, was made for MIDI/electronic music. For Digidesign it was Soundtools for audio.

This totally explains the market today. Most movie composers and professional producers prefer to do MIDI composition, now with VI's, in Cubase and Logic (and other MIDI sequencer focused DAWs) and deal with audio in Pro Tools. Digidesign implementing m-audio, Instrument Tracks, Axiom MIDI keyboard, Structure Goliath and all the wonderful Phil Jackson AIR IEP tutorial videos did absolutely nothing to change this.

It doesn't matter who engineers audio in Cubase and Logic, those native products got where they are and remain there because of superior MIDI composition. It doesn't matter who uses Pro Tools for MIDI, it got where it is and remains because of superior HD audio.

Why is LE, now vanilla here?

In today's world, only those in audio schools are serious about becoming future PT HD engineers. They won't give Avid much revenue. They will learn at school on a HD system they did not buy, use vanilla on a student discount, then intern and maybe get hired in a studio with another HD system they did not buy. If they become exceptionally better than the competition, and financially able and lucky enough to open their own studio, then they will install PT HD.

Who then mostly uses vanilla software? Local bands and hobbyists barely making a living, if at all, recording audio in vanilla on an incompatible computer, some moaning on forums that PT sucks and they are going to Logic or Cubase. Avid wants them to pay 899 USD plus subscription or rent vanilla because after all these years ONLY the ongoing subscription will finally give them the vanilla they've been waiting for? Give me a break.

There is no demand for the vanilla. This new model boils down to being acceptable for HD facilities because the upgrade costs are much higher than vanilla, making it a much greater value, especially if there are multiple rooms with HD. Vanilla will be allowed to be purchased but no group will purchase it enough to make it relevant. Avid will then be cleared to focus exclusively on the high-end market.

Perfectly stated. They would not be shifting their focus if there was substantial revenue from the "Vanilla" market.

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by Dnnspv

Logic, which started as Notator, was made for MIDI/electronic music.

Technically, Logic started as Creator.

Carry on.

[YYR123]

In the beginning.....