Automatic Delay Compensation question

[timeey]

Got an age-old question since i am still in PT 8 LE (updating to 10 in Q1 of 2013) regarding delay compensation.

On my sessions i get Dly of 10 samples (never had anything more) on instrument tracks with RTAS´s. On audio-tracks i have 0 Dly.
What i usually do in my sessions is record on instrument tracks, then later print each instrument track to audio as i go to free up CPU.

So as i go along in my session i always have some instrument tracks with 10 Dly and some printed audio tracks with 0 Dly.

What i am wondering now, is when i print instrument tracks with 10 Dly to Audio tracks, do i also print the delay from the instrument track with it?
Because after printing the new Audio-track, that track now states that it has 0 Dly, but is there 10 Dly printed in it already?

Sorry for being confusing, it´s difficult to explain.

I don´t know if i am just complicating the thought process for my self here. I am no algorithmic expert, but shouldn´t everything be fine as long as every track in the song has the same "Dly" number on it?

[nst7]

What instruments are you using? I think something may be wrong somewhere on your system. I've never heard of an instrument track having any kind of delay. Especially since most of them are sample based. I just checked several different brands of VI's in a session and they're all at 0.

[albee1952]

Also, keep in mind that 10 samples is a smaller time difference than from the drumset(picture and average band setup) to the bass player beside the kit, and the keyboard player that is 5' farther away

[timeey]

What instruments are you using? I think something may be wrong somewhere on your system.

That would not surprise me! Well i am using Xpand 2 amongst others (they all have 10 Dly on them).

And this is on Pro Tools 8.0.5 LE via Mbox 2 Mini.
All VI´s are on Stereo instrument tracks.

Just to clarify, i am talking about this stuff (which u probably know):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyTmExzNed0

But it does seem strange that every track produces exactly 10 dly though..
I have no idea what´s going on here.

[JazzyJ]

Well i am using Xpand 2 amongst others (they all have 10 Dly on them)

Yep, always has 10 Dly on every system I've ever seen

[nst7]

That is weird. I'm on HD10, but I tried Xpand2, Hybrid, all the stock Protools VI's, Superior Drummer, Arturia Minimoog, and I get 0 on all of them.

However, I did get 64 on Addictive Drums and Addictive Keys, so I do stand corrected on my original claim.

But I don't know why it would be different with the other plugins. I'm on HD Native, but that shouldn't have any effect. I even switched to the built in Mac output, which makes it no different than any other native system, and still got 0.


But back to the original point, I don't know how it is in 8, where you're compensating manually, but once you move to 10 and have delay compensation, I think it should properly line up. It should be no different than recording another audio track to an audio track with regular plugins that may have delays.

Later on I'll try to experiment using a plugin with a lot of delay like an L3, where the difference would be very obvious.

[timeey]

But I don't know why it would be different with the other plugins.

I have no idea either. it could be something about the software build (different algorithms in 8 from 10?) or maybe just the processing differences between the plugins? I have not found any specifics on this, however i am not comfortable in my DAW with these delays, especially since i don´t know 100 % how to control it.

I saw a video online where this was explained, where the guy just made a "Delay Compensation"-Bus. He bussed all tracks with 0 Dly to this Aux, and put 10 Dly on the Aux itself. This way it matched up with the rest.

When i make this Aux however and place a time adjuster (short) on it, i get 20 Dly instead of 10 Dly. When i take the plugin off, the Aux has 0 Dly.
So keep in mind there is 0 Dly on the Aux to begin with (no time adjuster), and when adding 10 Dly in the stereo time adjuster, i get 20 Dly - Why?

It´s frustrating cos i was actually just gonna let the 10 Dly slide.. cos it´s 10 Dly in a 44100 sample rate session. This equals 0.22 ms ((10 / 44100) * 1000) which isn´t too much to complain about, right? It´s really paranoid cos i am trying to differentiate tracks with and without 10 Dly! How do you hear that!?

Would you guys compensate for 10 Dly?

God i can´t wait to hop on over to PT 10.. need more tracks, busses, aux as well.

[JazzyJ]

On PT8 I've never seen a system that doesn't have 10 samples delay on all instrument tracks.

Whether that delay actually exists or it just sticks a '10' there anyway I don't know.

I've always just bounced my instrument tracks to audio anyway and have never felt that they sounded out.

The only way to really get around this if you want to is to buy PT9 or above. That way everything is compensated for anyway. PT10 goes up to 16,000 or something now which means that even using the 'laughable' UAD plugins is now actually feasible!

[timeey]

I've always just bounced my instrument tracks to audio anyway and have never felt that they sounded out.

Agreed. I also do believe that it might just be PT 8 sticking a 10 there, cos why would every plug generate exactly 10? Every plugin doesn´t generate the same number in PT 9 or 10, so i am letting this one slide.