Latency compensation implementation?

[JonesH]

Hello,
I don't really want to poke a dead horse, but I was thinking of latency compensation implementation and a way it could be done. I want to hear your reactions on whether this would be a smart way of implementing it in PT.

Most plugins accurately report their induced latency (as can be seen by cmd-clicking the volume level indicator below the fader). Were this to be given editable properties, it would be easy to simply manually enter a negative number (corresponding to the induced latency) and have Pro Tools begin playback on that track a little before it plays the "0-reference" tracks. In effect it would delay the tracks not affected by latency.

The step would be very short to make Pro Tools do this automatically. Aand of course that's were we are now - the endless moaning of "why hasn't digi enabled latency compensation yet?".

[Numi]

Let me see if I understand..you are suggesting that in the area that displays the delay of the plugin, that we should be able to enter an opposite number to compensate for the delay. This would tell PT's to play that track sooner because of the induced latency therefore fixing the need for an overhaul of the audio engine?

Sounds like it could work..like a nudge feature built in to track itself, only by entering it yourself at the delay reporting display? Matter of fact..if PT's already knows and reports the latency then it already knows..so why not have a automatic displacement of files being affected. Seems like basic script would need to written to preform this task?

Maybe I'm not getting it but at least someone is coming up with ideas..

[Daviskenn]

Not to be a cynic, but all this hemming and hawing from Digi about it being a hard implementation in LE is BS. EVERY OTHER DAW offers this - it's not an unknown commodity. It's basically the only incentive they have to keep HD users from dumping and coming to LE. So, we'll never see PT's with delay compensation - unless we see them phase out the LE and HD and settle for a one system fits all, $2500 system.

[Ziko]

While we're doing the whole crystal ball gazing, here's my take on the LE, HD and delay comp thing:

I would imagine the market for LE is much much larger than for HD, there are infinitely more home studio people than studios out there.

Studios are struggling to stay open for a number of reasons we'll all be aware of so the HD market is shrinking.

What users want:

LE users want delay comp and the ability to go to more inputs and outputs/higher quality mic-pres and converters.

HD users at pro studios want the high number of inputs/outputs and to be able to keep using their high quality converters and mic-pres. They want to keep the no latency issues, some might feel their TDM plugins sound better than LE ones too.
They'll also like the higher quality 48bit mix summing.

So why have HD and LE? Why not fix delay comp in LE and introduce some higher end interfaces in the LE range that give you the high quality options if you want it. For example, an interface with no analoge inputs at all, just a bunch of ADAT for hooking up your Apogee converters (if you're a studio).
If they can get delay comp, 48bit resolution in summing and improve RTAS then LE can do all that everyone wants.
They'll be able to tailor different interfaces to limit the number and quality of inputs/outputs and therefore keep a range of pricing from home user to high end studio user.
Of course it'll all become host based processing but is a studio going to be worried? I doubt it, they'll have a super grunty Mac Pro which can do squillions of plugins.

And of course Digi will then only have to support/develop one version of Pro Tools.

So who knows, maybe that's where Digi are heading.

Or I could be way off track, who really knows...

[basslik]

Originally Posted by Ziko

While we're doing the whole crystal ball gazing, here's my take on the LE, HD and delay comp thing:

I would imagine the market for LE is much much larger than for HD, there are infinitely more home studio people than studios out there.

Studios are struggling to stay open for a number of reasons we'll all be aware of so the HD market is shrinking.

What users want:

LE users want delay comp and the ability to go to more inputs and outputs/higher quality mic-pres and converters.

HD users at pro studios want the high number of inputs/outputs and to be able to keep using their high quality converters and mic-pres. They want to keep the no latency issues, some might feel their TDM plugins sound better than LE ones too.
They'll also like the higher quality 48bit mix summing.

So why have HD and LE? Why not fix delay comp in LE and introduce some higher end interfaces in the LE range that give you the high quality options if you want it. For example, an interface with no analoge inputs at all, just a bunch of ADAT for hooking up your Apogee converters (if you're a studio).
If they can get delay comp, 48bit resolution in summing and improve RTAS then LE can do all that everyone wants.
They'll be able to tailor different interfaces to limit the number and quality of inputs/outputs and therefore keep a range of pricing from home user to high end studio user.
Of course it'll all become host based processing but is a studio going to be worried? I doubt it, they'll have a super grunty Mac Pro which can do squillions of plugins.

And of course Digi will then only have to support/develop one version of Pro Tools.

So who knows, maybe that's where Digi are heading.

Or I could be way off track, who really knows...

like to hear digi chime in on this one?

[audiogeekzine]

Originally Posted by JonesH

Most plugins accurately report their induced latency (as can be seen by cmd-clicking the volume level indicator below the fader). Were this to be given editable properties, it would be easy to simply manually enter a negative number (corresponding to the induced latency) and have Pro Tools begin playback on that track a little before it plays the "0-reference" tracks. In effect it would delay the tracks not affected by latency.

Or implement real time properties on audio tracks, because RTP is before inserts already.

[djejNYC]

My friends, this is already possible with Mellowmuse ATA plugin. The latest version allows you to enter in values manually and lock them if desired, and the pinging is even more accurate. I know alot of people have had problems with Mellowmuse in the past, but I can attest that the newest version REALLY rocks and is a HUGE improvement over the old versions. I've been using it through many updates and this latest one is now ready for general consumption. I've used it to mix two albums on LE with two UAD cards (which require alot of delay compensation) and am loving the ATA.

[tamasdragon]

Originally Posted by Daviskenn

Not to be a cynic, but all this hemming and hawing from Digi about it being a hard implementation in LE is BS. EVERY OTHER DAW offers this - it's not an unknown commodity. It's basically the only incentive they have to keep HD users from dumping and coming to LE. So, we'll never see PT's with delay compensation - unless we see them phase out the LE and HD and settle for a one system fits all, $2500 system.

I disagree here. Implementation of delay compensation into le is not so simple for example because of the session compatibility between le and hd. None of any other daw in this world which has multiple levels of system with fully exchangable sessions.
Not to mention that some of those other daws implemented it (delay comp) wrong, so having issues with it even in this year (think about some tests I have read about logic).
Of course I would like to see many things in le which are not in now, but I still think that this is one of the best choices around. Of course imho.
Tamas Dragon

[musicalavtech]

My 2c...Digidesign needs to buy/break themselves away from mother Avid. That gives them more freedom and control of their product implementation.

[Anthony Jr.]

Originally Posted by djejNYC

My friends, this is already possible with Mellowmuse ATA plugin. The latest version allows you to enter in values manually and lock them if desired, and the pinging is even more accurate. I know alot of people have had problems with Mellowmuse in the past, but I can attest that the newest version REALLY rocks and is a HUGE improvement over the old versions. I've been using it through many updates and this latest one is now ready for general consumption. I've used it to mix two albums on LE with two UAD cards (which require alot of delay compensation) and am loving the ATA.

I too am using Mellowmuse's ATA Plug-in. It honestly is so nice that it's barely worth complaining for this feature anymore.

Granted it would be nice to see it built-in, but at least it's there and affordable for now. Not worth trolling over; I'm sure Digidesign are well aware of the consumer's desire to see it happen.