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#181
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Re: ICON D ? Is this the new controller?
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Dude, I don't think we're going to be able to help you see the light. You are obviously inexperienced in general business and in the studio business, as well. Yes, everyone is going to have ProTools. In case you hadn't noticed, almost everyone does already. Now, do you REALLY think that Sheryl Crow is going to go to the inexpensive basement ProTools LE? OR, is she going to go into a REAL studio with the full blown TDM/Icon system? If you think that all people give a [bleep] about is the lowest priced studio, you're dead wrong. Why do people seem to prefer the much more expensive iPod than the cheap alternatives? Why do people buy BMW's and Mercedes? Don't they know that a Hyundai will get them to the same place? Many, if not most, of the major artists, producers and engineers DO NOT WANT TO WORK IN SOMEONE'S BASEMENT! THEY WANT A REAL STUDIO ENVIRONMENT! And don't tell me that's because of the analog gear...THEY ARE ALREADY RECORDING EXCLUSIVELY IN PROTOOLS! You mentioned Rage in an earlier post. Well, when they were making records, there were TONS of home studios with reasonable analog gear. BUT, they still chose to spend a lot of their time in a "real" studio environment. Why? Because of all the reasons I posted earlier (good monitoring, good tech staff, good environment, blah, blah). And by the way, you made a point of them working in analog. What you failed to mention was that their last real album was Battle for Los Angeles, released in Nov '99. That was BEFORE ProTools really took off in the pro market! I suppose that if you're not working at the top level of the industry, I couldn't expect to you to have much knowledge about how these people think and how they work. You mentioned JJP in an earlier post. Do you know that when I attended his party way back in Sept of 2002, HE WAS ALREADY INSISTING THAT ALL FILES COME TO HIM IN PROTOOLS FORMAT...NO 2", NO DIGITAL, NO NOTHING BUT PROTOOLS. This has been true of both Lord-Alges for years, as well. If I had told you four years ago that major mixers would soon INSIST ON ALL PT FILES, you would have said the exact same thing you're saying now "hey, why would major mixers change their method...ain't gonna happen...you'll see Eggman...they LOVE the sound of analog". dude, you're friggin' lost in all this. You're so far off base that I don't think we can help you. I mean, you got to bring at least some intelligence to the table, here. So, if you're here to exchange ideas, no problem. Everyone here does appreciate all views. And if you are going to continue to believe that analog studios are going to thrive because they are NOT what the kid has in his basement, well then, good luck to you. Perhaps you'll do better than all the major analog studios who are tanking as we speak...
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The Eggman coo coo ca joob |
#182
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Re: ICON D ? Is this the new controller?
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Another question to ask youself is: what does ICON bring to the SOUND of Pro Tools that is going to make mix engineers MIX in Pro Tools? It's not a convenience factor to stem out tracks to an SSL, if convenience is what you're trying to get at here. ICON isn't gonna be used for it's convenience, for the same reason Pro Control didn't change anybody's mind. Why? Nobody likes to mix in Pro Tools cause it sounds like @ss. And, AUTO DELAY COMPENSATION isn't gonna fix this problem either...so keep on dreamin' everybody. Quote:
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So, tell me, what great sounding records where MIXED ENTIRELY IN PRO TOOLS? Point me to some, and you'll convince me....and a lot of other people. Like I said in an earlier post: ICON's market is the post-pro/film market. They'll gobble it up. Have fun with your ICON. |
#183
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Re: ICON D ? Is this the new controller?
Hey guys...I'll jump in here.
Interestingly, I think that the D-Control will end up being very popular in high level studios in which overdubs will take place. I believe this because basically everyone is recording into PT and simply using the studio console for playback of audio because it happens to be sitting there in the middle of the room. For the overdubbing process, those engineers are using mic pre's of the choice (say, 1073's or whatever) going to outboard eq and/or compression. I think that many engineers would prefer it if the large frame analog console were yanked out and replaced with a large frame PT controller (I agree with Eggie...the ProControl and Control24 were simply not "pro" enough for a lot of the working engineers). Now I'm sure that S2N is going to bring up that if a studio did replace their mid-level SSL with a D-Control, then sonically they'd have the same thing as the kid down the street and yes, that is true. BUT, it is already true basically, because everyone is overdubbing using external pre's etc. and simply using the house console for playback. SO, the kid down the street could have the exact same mic chain going into PT and some clients will take their business there. But the top level clients are very service and environment driven, wanting to work in nice places with runners, secretaries and the general amenities of a commercial studio. So I think the product will be a hit there. I also think that over time, even the big mixing engineers will begin to migrate. Do I think that PT sounds as glorious as good old 2"? NO, I don't. But, if the people who are the busiest in this industry are concerned only with audio integrity, we most likely wouldn't have left tape based systems behind for DAW systems. For a lot of people in the biz, convenience is becoming more and more a factor in their work (over sound considerations), so I think that it's only a matter of time before some of the big mixers take the bold step onto the D-Control, and once one of them does it, they'll all get wind and want to give it a try. Just my two cents... carry on. J |
#184
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Re: ICON D ? Is this the new controller?
Great Post s2n.
Here is the big problem. Yeah it's cheaper than a new SSL. But it's not cheaper than a used SSL. With studios dying the way that they are, there's gonna be alot of SSL's available. At this price point. If they could have stuck below the $100,000 mark, full featured, than I think they have a market. Trying to get the Tom Lord Alge's and Bob Clearmountains is a mistake. They demand the best. They don't want to downgrade. Yes, I am happy with my Control24. I had a 24 fader Pro Control ($30,000) but I preferred the control24. more faders in the sweet spot. The days of spending 3 months in a Posh studio are over. Cheaper project studios are the present and future of music. Even ask those mixers. I bet they're working less and less. The budgets just aren't there anymore. Real records are being released mixed in LE systems. And people are making them sound pretty good. We're in an economic crisis and cheaply made records are gonna be the norm for awhile. The place people are spending lots of money right now is Analog Outboard gear. Making Pro Tools a usable recording medium.
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Pro Tools Tutorials: Mixing Heavy Rock & Metal • Pro Tools 11 - Tips and Tricks • Delay Explained • Tracking Rock - Drums • Mixing Rock • Music Production with Pro Tools • Pro Tools Tips and Tricks Vol. 2 • Pro Tools Tips and Tricks Vol. 3 • Elastic Audio in Action |
#185
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Re: ICON D ? Is this the new controller?
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What is the huge advantage for these Mixers? They're still gonna use 20 to 40 outboard EQ's and compressors because they are better than plug ins. They're still gonna use outboard delays and Reverbs which they are completely accustomed to. They're still gonna mix thru an Outboard Analog compressor. Because they're better too. So exactly when do they benefit from the "Total Recall" in five minutes thing? Are you expecting them to throw out they're complete Toolbox and start over? Silly.
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Pro Tools Tutorials: Mixing Heavy Rock & Metal • Pro Tools 11 - Tips and Tricks • Delay Explained • Tracking Rock - Drums • Mixing Rock • Music Production with Pro Tools • Pro Tools Tips and Tricks Vol. 2 • Pro Tools Tips and Tricks Vol. 3 • Elastic Audio in Action |
#186
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Re: ICON D ? Is this the new controller?
"EGGMAN
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Do you have an SSL or Neve for sale or are you working on a 002 or 001? For a person who starts a sentence with "DUDE" and who name drops I would question your experience in business..... |
#187
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Re: ICON D ? Is this the new controller?
I had Pro Tools.
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John Miller, Los Angeles |
#188
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Re: ICON D ? Is this the new controller?
Johnny v wrote:
"Top level clients are very service and environment driven, wanting to work in nice places with runners, secretaries and the general amenities of a commercial studio". BINGO! Other than that there will be no escaping the wiz kid down the street with outboard gear into P.Tools. It's a real pain in the @$$ to wear all those hats of say artist, engineer, editor, mixer and mastering engineer. That's a tough gig to pull off, and some pretty big shoes (plural) to fill to do it correctly. Top level clients WILL NOT have those logistical headaches when they can pay someone else to have them. Why would they, they are more concerned (and should be) with doing what they do best. Furthermore, many pros when shopping for a studio (even a small one) will explicitly state "no bedrooms or basements please"! However, there will be a "clown with a credit card" as the gap narrows with price, gear, and affordable digital technology. At the same time, someone every so often will pull off a great record with items you buy off the shelf everyday -it's happened with analog gear and demos too. Nice arguments though. L.A.Branville |
#189
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Re: ICON D ? Is this the new controller?
THIS is a repeat and may also get pulled again from this forum (geez, and I left a communist country just to get axed here as well for my opinion) but $60k-$120k is a lot of money for a pretty new mouse. Digi your doing a lot of great things and I know that you can not please everybody all the time but come on who is this pleasing? I want a desk that replaces the tedium of setting up an SSL or what ever but come on no patchbay with there own D/A's-A/D's ect? What were they thinking? Believe me I'm more then ecstatic about auto delay compensation and many of the new fetures that are being made available for P.T., but the whole point (for me) in using a large desk is the ability to patch in and out my various configurations and with the speed, flexibility and control that only comes from large format desks. (more specifically SSL's) I have to look at this product more in the Procontrol niche but not at that price. This does not replace an SSL in my book. Yes some large/medium size houses will be forced to buy some of these because of the psycology that goes on with the competitve nature of the biz but as a whole ... at that price...?
Maybe what got me yancked from this discussion before was the "I bet it has a pretty Vegas Mode though" comment. A little sarcasm won't kill you Dig! Perhaps just make you think? I am an avid supporter of Digi ever since the original Drumulator chips days so we go way back together and I know that every company makes both good and bad decisions but this one really frustrated me. I sold my SSL in preparation for this product. Now I will stick to a Procontrol and maybe a few more 192's now that Auto Delay Comp is for real. Oh well, flame on if you wish folks.
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Cheers, Señior Light Full Bandwidth 24/7 |
#190
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Re: ICON D ? Is this the new controller?
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But that's not really the point anyway. With or without guys like Tom, I believe that there are already a lot of people who really have wanted to mix in PT, but would not do so without a substantial surface. And I believe that the Icon will address them nicely. Once it is installed into some nice rooms, I do think that those rooms will see steady bookings. But, we can all debate this until we're blue in the face and not come to a real conclusion without the future simply playing itself out. And I will be the first to admit that I misjudged the market if it ends up that nearly all the people simply continue mixing on SSL's. It will be interesting...
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The Eggman coo coo ca joob |
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