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  #1  
Old 02-01-2007, 02:17 AM
hecatomb hecatomb is offline
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Default Need help with midi woes

O.K. here is my situation and what i want to do.... I have tried everything i can think of and feel it is time to turn this over to you experts.
I am running Pro Tools M-Powered 7.1
Toontracks Drumkit from Hell Superior
Roland xp-50 as a master controller
Korg MicroKorg as a sound module
A MicroKorg software editor
M-audio Audiophile 192 audio/midi interface
M-audio 1 in-1 out Midi to usb interface(optional, if needed)

Here is my plan:
0. I want to program everything(drums,microKorg, etc.) in the roland sequencer
1. I want the roland channel/track 10 to control dfhs
2. I want the roland channel/track 16 to control the MicroKorg
3. I want to be able to use the other roland channels/tracks to play internal roland synth sounds only(not send midi)
4. In the midi chain, I still want to be able to edit my MicroKorg sounds with the software editor
5. I either want Pro tools to begin recording(track for track, not all tracks at once)when play is pressed on the roland sequencer. OR The roland sequencer to start playing when the pro tools record is started.

to begin.... I have already rtfm's, to obviously no avail.....Also, SORRY FOR THE SAME POST IN DIFFERENT FORUMS!!!!!!!!
baphomet1313
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2007, 05:31 AM
Stig Eliassen's Avatar
Stig Eliassen Stig Eliassen is offline
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Default Re: Need help with midi woes

Don't double-post. It makes it a lot harder for users to help, and information would be spread across several threads. This is from the DUC Terms of Use:

"Multiple identical postings in the same forum or more than one forum of the same message are not allowed and may be considered spam and removed. "

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Studio rig - Pro Tools|HDX 2018.7 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | Avid HD I/O (8x8x8) | 6-core 3.33 Westmere w/24GB RAM | OS 10.12.3 | D-Command ES | Eleven Rack | Vienna Ensemble Pro 5
Mobile rig - Macbook Pro i7 w/16GB RAM | UA Apollo 8p | Pro Tools|HD 2018.3 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | OS 10.12.6
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  #3  
Old 02-01-2007, 08:45 AM
stillwarm stillwarm is offline
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Location: Koloa, Hawaii
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Default Re: Need help with midi woes

Hello,
I am not familiar with the sequencer in the roland, and you don't say what platform (mac or pc) you are on, so all I can really try to suggest would be to set up your midi studio within Pro tools and go from there. Mac PT 7.x LE includes a seperate midi studio app that can help you configure your midi setup. On the PC, you have to do it manually, but it's still pretty easy. From there, you create an instrument, name it, specify what midi channels you are transmitting on, what channels are receiving, and you go from there. There is also a function in Pro Tools that allows you to setup recording to only start when it first sees a midi note, which could help with your roland sequencer.
I am sorta unclear regarding your 'track to track' thing, Are you wanting to record audio , or midi? It may involve setting up some sysex messages within the roland, or having multiple audio outputs on the roland for each midi channel to record the audio. The Digidesign manuals are great, but there are some very intuitive third party books that really explain alot of the features and processes in a more friendly manner, so to speak. Check out Borders or Barnes Nobles for some of these, there are several different ones out there, all covering PT7,LE, TDM, and M-Powered.
Midi is really flexible, whatever you can think of, it can most likely do it(in regards to music!), but sometimes it can get tricky to tell it exactly what you want it to do. You gotta remember, it's a type of coding language that only transmits/receives instructions. It has to be told what to do. You could also look at books about midi, since many of them show and discuss multiple, complex midi setups, and often include diagrams.
Good Luck--------------
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2007, 01:34 AM
hecatomb hecatomb is offline
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Default Re: Need help with midi woes

Both very helpful, thanx. I will clarify a few things that may help you to help me.
I am running: Pro Tools M-Powered 7.1 on a Pentium 2.6 gig processor PC w/1.5 gig. ram/ 40 gig. system drive/ 120 gig. record drive(both 7200 rpm)
I use the roland sequencer because i am used to it. I do most of my drum sequencing in step-entry, not real time, and know my way around the roland. What i mean by track for track is I want to record the midi drums to dfhs/Pro Tools. Rewind. record the microkorg to pro tools. Rewind.Track1,2,3,etc. All audio tracks. For the sake of them all lining up in pro tools, I want 1 sequencer to start the other (Seems like the pro tools starting upon recieving midi note info will do just fine, thanx) Back to the drums for a moment.... What I do in the roland is step enter the bass drum and snare together, rewind, then real time overdub (with quantize)the hats, cymbals, fills, etc. Can i do that in Pro tools? If so, i could eliminate the roland completely and save my(and you good people's)time and energy trying to set this nightmare up and actually get some recording done!!!! Thank you all for your time, I am sorry if I am but a lowly, dense newbie!!!
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2007, 05:30 AM
stillwarm stillwarm is offline
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Default Re: Need help with midi woes

Hello,
I think you are working too hard to record and make music. What I mean is that it sounds like you are going way out of the way to get there. I understand your familiarity with the feel of the roland, but Pro Tools does support step entry.

You have basically just upgraded to a hardcore fancy sequencer that sports a ton of midi features, and it would be a shame for you not to tap into the potential it has. If I was in your situation, I would really take the time to learn the midi sequencing aspect of ProTools, and just set your midi gear to respond to it. The track by track thing (I understand what you mean now)is how most producers or solo artists record, so pro tools is definitely set up to handle you on that end.

I have gotten alot of info from books, Ignite and Power are two that I bought, and I also bought the Pro Tools 101 course book. Two of those books had DVD's that came with them, and had video lessons, explaining many of the more common features. I also picked up the Electronic Musician 'Mastering Pro Tools' magazine at the EM website. It came with even more video tutorials, and raw tracks for you to remix from that band 311. I love having a ton of reference material, cause I hate not knowing how to do things!

What you are wanting to do can totally be done within Pro tools, no problems. What I think you will find if you dig a little deeper, is a new way to record and make music, something that is even more intuitive and more comfortable than the way you presently work. With all new software comes a bit of a learning curve, and it is often easier to remain in our comfort zone because we totally know how everything works.

If you live in a big city, you might check out the library for books on Pro Tools. My library does not have books like that, but the big Library in Tucson does, so I had to drive about 10 miles to check it out, and I just eventually bought it anyways!

You will get it, just start experimenting with different setups, everyone has different needs. It took me some time to figure out exactly how I wanted my midi setup to be, and I had to make it upgradeable for the future.

I hope you have found some directions to look towards, have fun experimenting,

later,
SS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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  #6  
Old 02-03-2007, 12:39 AM
hecatomb hecatomb is offline
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Default Re: Need help with midi woes

Thank you both so much.....I think all of the info you have provided should do nicely....Here is the thing, though....what i do generally is record drum lines and bass lines in the roland sequencer...I still want to use the customized bass sounds that are in the roland. As i have already posted, i will be using dfhs for drums from now on. I know this may sound dumb, but, here goes.... as the bass sounds are "audio" from the roland output jacks, but "midi" as far as internally in the roland sequencer,will pro tools allow me to step enter bass notes as "audio"? Hope that makes sense, i guess what i mean is, if no midi lines were connected, can i assign a note value to an audio track in pro tools,say, a quarter note, play the roland keyboard,rewind, and have it play back all in quarter notes? Or, would i have to input the notes as midi in pro tools, send the midi to the roland, and record the output to an audio track??? I really hope this makes sense,you guys say it will be easier to do what i want to do in pro tools,but, you are right, i am very comfortable with the roland sequencer. And, Damnit, I just wanna make some music!!!!!!!!Thanx again,
Baphomet1313
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2007, 01:12 PM
stillwarm stillwarm is offline
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Default Re: Need help with midi woes

Ok,
There is no hard and fast rule to get to what you are wanting to do, and no questions are ever really dumb. The bottom line is get in there and start experimenting! You will find that while midi is complex, it's also basically a set of instructions, waiting for you to tell it what to do. I agree with Rob, spend some time with some different configurations, you'll know straight off if they aren't working for you.

Because many people use PT, and because those people have different setups, demands, expectations, etc..., you have to come into this with a little bit of knowing where you want to get to. Pro Tools was designed to be very flexible and intuitive, which is why it can get tricky setting up your own personal situation. I had a bit of reservation about getting into it, but I really was able to make my complex midi studio jive with the audio aspects I wanted to incorporate into it.

Everyone's studio is different, with different needs and gear. I'll bet that once you really spend some time with the midi features of PT 7, you'll wonder how you ever got by without them! It's just a slightly different way of thinking, coming from a hardware sequencer, but the editing and manipulation of not only midi data, but audio as well, is really slick.

You might need to put any serious writing and producing on hold for a bit, just to get to know the way the app works, unless you totally dig the outspace, impulsive, non-linear pleasant mistakes that will happen when you start messin' about! Usually you end up coming up with something that is completely usable, and decide to use it, cause it does sound cool.

Perhaps think of Pro Tools as more of an 'instrument', than a tool, or a means to the end. Your knowledge of it will greatly enhance whatever you need to do. If you can, take a look at the keyboard shortcuts pdf, about 35 pages! All of them were designed and programmed in to help you work faster. The app is really designed to maximize whatever you are trying to do in the most efficient time.

Sometimes a break from it all can do wonders.

As always, continue to experiment, it will only help you. As far as specifics for your studio goes, only you can get that working in order to make it comfortable and ergonomic. Take a day, have a pint, and ponder the manufacturing of hangers or something! Chances are, the "way" will come to you, and you'll be back to making music in no time. But do take the time to re-evaluate your setup, it will totally help.

I hope that this didn't sound like too much philosophy, my friend!

Have fun & good luck bro,

SS.............
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  #8  
Old 03-02-2007, 03:18 AM
hecatomb hecatomb is offline
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Default Re: Need help with midi woes

I have come to realize that my xp-50 sequencer can suck my d*ck!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!!! I had no idea how bad-ass pro tools was/Is!!!!!! you guys were right, thank you all so much.....btw,rob, xpand is very nice....I use it for my bass lines, works great.... Thanx again, everyone!!!!!!!!
Hecatomb
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