Mac user want's to switch to PC: Got questions...

[zblip2]

Hi

I make a living as a sound desinger. I work every day on a Mac and want to switch to PC. I've got some questions that nead answering. Your input would be appreciated.

I want to run Pro tools TDM 5.x or 6.x on Windows XP.

1- Is it true that for the same buget, a PC based Pro Tools will be more powerfull?

Your Answer:___________________________________________ ______________________________


2- Is there any draw backs to running Pro Tools on a PC. I mean REAL draw backs. Not "I hate Windows" stuff...

Your Answer:___________________________________________ ______________________________

3- Cost not being an issue, what should I go for? Intel, AMD, Xeon, Athlon, Dual core, Hiper Threading dual HT? All of this is confusing me! I want a no compromise, stable work station and I have no time for dealing with flaky stuff. By the way I will be working with Quick Time videos at the same time, out of the same computer. So the computer will need to be able to run Pro Tools and the movie at the same time...

Your Answer:___________________________________________ ________________________________

4-Do you guys know of a video card that will permit me to output simultaniously to a big minitor (17"), and a TV monitor (the TV showing th Quick Time movie)?

Your Answer:___________________________________________ ________________________________

Thanks Guys!!

[steve at Your Heaven]

1- Is it true that for the same buget, a PC based Pro Tools will be more powerfull?

Your Answer: TDM systems use the Digidesign cards for processing, so there should be little or no difference. In general, a PC with something like equivalent ‘power’ (eg, more memory, which is helpful, fast internal drives, etc.) costs less than a similarly outfitted Apple, so there may be a savings there.


2- Is there any draw backs to running Pro Tools on a PC. I mean REAL draw backs. Not "I hate Windows" stuff...

Your Answer: This is the WINDOWS TDM site, so you’re not likely to get much ‘I hate Windows’ stuff here. There are small advantages to either side, but very small. The most common traditional issue is if a certain plug-in is written by a vendor for only one platform. There are lots of recent threads about this; try a search here on ‘plug’, see what you get.


3- Cost not being an issue, what should I go for? Intel, AMD, Xeon, Athlon, Dual core, Hiper Threading dual HT? All of this is confusing me! I want a no compromise, stable work station and I have no time for dealing with flaky stuff. By the way I will be working with Quick Time videos at the same time, out of the same computer. So the computer will need to be able to run Pro Tools and the movie at the same time...

Your Answer Read the Compatibility link (above) CAREFULLY. I don’t use Quicktime, but remember reading recent threads here, so try a search on that too.


4-Do you guys know of a video card that will permit me to output simultaniously to a big minitor (17"), and a TV monitor (the TV showing th Quick Time movie)?

Your Answer: Should not be a problem; I don’t do this stuff, but I suspect you want a dual monitor card with at least one ‘TV’ out (to match whatever type of input your tv has, or get a tv with an input that matches one of your video card’s outputs). As always, pay careful attention to the Compatibility listings. [PS - I’m surprised to hear a 17” monitor referred to as ‘big’.]

In general, calling someone at the pre-sales number at Digidesign will give you good information. From the home page:
Digidesign Telesales & Presales Product Specialists Pre-purchase product information for Digidesign and Digidesign-distributed products. Digidesign Telesales is the place to call for information on purchasing hardware exchanges.
* Presales/Telesales Phone: 800.333.2137
* Hours of operation, all times California, USA (PST or PDT)
* Monday thru Thursday:
o 8:30am to 1:00pm
o 2:00pm to 5:30pm
* Friday:
o 8:30am to 1:00pm
o 2:00pm to 3:00pm
* Presales/Telesales Fax: 650.731.6389
* Presales/Telesales email: [email protected]
* Hardware Exchange Information

[bricoleur]

1- Is it true that for the same buget, a PC based Pro Tools will be more powerfull?

Your Answer:

Depends on how you calculate your budget – initial hardware cost or total cost of ownership. For example, it is true that initial hardware cost is more for the Mac, however, research demonstrates that total cost of ownership is less for the Mac.

B

[MDog]

Depends on how you calculate your budget – initial hardware cost or total cost of ownership. For example, it is true that initial hardware cost is more for the Mac, however, research demonstrates that total cost of ownership is less for the Mac.

B

Which is negated everytime they decide to totally redesign their OS. $150 for Panther, then another $150 for Tiger etc etc. Then all the downtime at every "dot" upgrade since they tend to break third party software (like Pro Tools) almost everytime.

OTOH, WinXP has been extremely stable and is less complicated than OS X. It's a more mature platform than OSX now, and they seem to care about compatibility. I got tired of Apple forcing me to the bleeding edge all the time and holding me up for more cash to do it.

IMO, cost isn't a very good argument for the Mac.

[nikki-k]

Depends on how you calculate your budget – initial hardware cost or total cost of ownership. For example, it is true that initial hardware cost is more for the Mac, however, research demonstrates that total cost of ownership is less for the Mac.

B

Research? lol!!! Yeah, i guess if two baboons are given a mac and a wintel, each will incur similar cost figures...

i have owned both...mac is (by far) more expensive (almost double) for an educated user. For the uneducated, "dont really want to learn" user, it could even up, depending on use and abuse.

Links to research with cost breakdowns?

[nikki-k]

Hi

I make a living as a sound desinger. I work every day on a Mac and want to switch to PC. I've got some questions that nead answering. Your input would be appreciated.

I want to run Pro tools TDM 5.x or 6.x on Windows XP.

1- Is it true that for the same buget, a PC based Pro Tools will be more powerfull?

Steve covered this well. I will add this:
For a similar budget, one could build two PC's, and then route audio from the second to the TDM system so as to place any real-time sound generating tasks off the TDM system. If you wont need to utilize more than a few software synths, and will not get too taxing with RTAS, the single system will be great.
I would choose one of two systems: The ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe based one, or the Tyan based with dual CPU's.

2- Is there any draw backs to running Pro Tools on a PC. I mean REAL draw backs. Not "I hate Windows" stuff...

Besides taunting from ignorant people...
If one does not know the Windows OS, there is a learning curve, and adapting to a new file management system. OS9 and earlier users moving to OS-X had a small climb; switching to XP is a much higher curve IMO. Sure, getting going can be very fast for most (some?). It is the little things that get ya. I would say about one year with the OS would have any truly positive user more than adequate at maintaining their own system, with most being able to upgrade, or even build from scratch. Using a proven system with a proven combination of parts with an up to date version of Pro Tools also allows you a nearly 100% chance someone here would be able to aid you with almost any question.
It isnt very difficult, it is just alot of little nooks and crannies that knowing about can help alot. Keep a hardware firewall between you and the outside, dont be stupid when on the 'net, and do regular scans for spyware, and maybe a monthly for virii. Oh- and a utility like Norton Ghost (or similar disk image app) is a must IMO.

3- Cost not being an issue, what should I go for? Intel, AMD, Xeon, Athlon, Dual core, Hiper Threading dual HT? All of this is confusing me! I want a no compromise, stable work station and I have no time for dealing with flaky stuff. By the way I will be working with Quick Time videos at the same time, out of the same computer. So the computer will need to be able to run Pro Tools and the movie at the same time...

For Mix systems, no idea.
For HD (Accel), it depends. If same-box processing for everything is what you are after, the dual-core, dual CPU box might serve the non-restricted budget buyer best. If assembling via a parts list, be careful, and consult here first. For instance, power supply alone could devestate an otherwise top-notch system.
Once again, the ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe system with SATA drives is a great, totally stable workhorse system. Assembled with proven parts, it can be coupled with a sweet HD4 Accel system for stable, rleiable TDM/HD use.
Since you are going for video use tho, I would wait for those using video to chime in here. I know there are post using the ASUS based system, but I believe many are also using the dual cpu systems. Video card and such would be more of a concern as well I would guess.

4-Do you guys know of a video card that will permit me to output simultaniously to a big minitor (17"), and a TV monitor (the TV showing th Quick Time movie)?

Sorry, no vid work here. I have seen this discussed here in TDM-XP land before tho, so it might just take a little time before those users get around to visiting here. Maybe search "video" in this forum over the past year or two.

Thanks Guys!!

No problem! Hope the move works for ya!
If you have further questions, dont hesitate to post away!

[audiogeek1]

Hi

I make a living as a sound desinger. I work every day on a Mac and want to switch to PC. I've got some questions that nead answering. Your input would be appreciated.

I want to run Pro tools TDM 5.x or 6.x on Windows XP.

1- Is it true that for the same buget, a PC based Pro Tools will be more powerfull?

Your Answer:___________________________________________ ______________________________


2- Is there any draw backs to running Pro Tools on a PC. I mean REAL draw backs. Not "I hate Windows" stuff...

Your Answer:___________________________________________ ______________________________

3- Cost not being an issue, what should I go for? Intel, AMD, Xeon, Athlon, Dual core, Hiper Threading dual HT? All of this is confusing me! I want a no compromise, stable work station and I have no time for dealing with flaky stuff. By the way I will be working with Quick Time videos at the same time, out of the same computer. So the computer will need to be able to run Pro Tools and the movie at the same time...

Your Answer:___________________________________________ ________________________________

4-Do you guys know of a video card that will permit me to output simultaniously to a big minitor (17"), and a TV monitor (the TV showing th Quick Time movie)?

Your Answer:___________________________________________ ________________________________

Thanks Guys!!

The answers

1- I find it to be about the same cost to run either a mac or a pc. They both are about the same speed.


2- As a fairly recent switcher to the PC the biggest drawback for me is just making sure everything in the PC likes each other. Also there is way more to deal with in compatability in putting a PC together. We opted for a Prebuilt to spec HP XV8200 and it is running really well. I run picture, 64+ tracks of audio most days without it freaking out. The G5 we have down the hall will do the same but will not talk to Unity or our V10 video option.

3- For me not being fluent PC processor we went with a preconfigured system from HP that Digi says is compatable and put XP Pro and extra ram and a different video card. Works really well. Only a few driver hassles.

4- The Video card we switched to is a NVidia Quadro 1400. It has dual monitor support and an SVideo output you could use that to do what you are asking. But really I would look at something like a MOJO. It will do what you are asking I believe. Check the compato docs. We use one on our G5 and it works well and plays quicktime out of it. We have to have a Video DA to run to a monitor, a TV, and a Projector simultainiously.

Hope this helps

Mike

[Starcrash]

Re: Question 4. You might be bummed because you can't run your quicktime out the firewire port on a Windows machine. Mac only feature. Pretty key feature for doing post. You might consider asking some questions in the Post & Surround forum before you make the switch. Mostly music folks who prefer Windows around here. Good luck.

[bricoleur]

Which is negated everytime they decide to totally redesign their OS. $150 for Panther, then another $150 for Tiger etc etc. Then all the downtime at every "dot" upgrade since they tend to break third party software (like Pro Tools) almost everytime.

You should learn to only upgrade your OS AFTER Digidesign has completed testing and blessed the OS. Then watch the DUC for people who have installed the software and whether or not third party SW still works or not. Only then should you make a decision to upgrade.

Common sense really.

OTOH, WinXP has been extremely stable and is less complicated than OS X. It's a more mature platform than OSX now, and they seem to care about compatibility.

I am not commenting on stability, maturity, or compatibility. All of which will yield different comments depending on who you talk to, thus moot points.

I got tired of Apple forcing me to the bleeding edge all the time and holding me up for more cash to do it.

Upgrading an OS is a choice of the user, not the choice of the manufacturer. I am sorry you feel like Steve Jobs is holding a gun to your head demanding you have the very latest OS installed, but in reality, you have a choice. Use it.

-----------------------------------------------------

Research? lol!!! Yeah, i guess if two baboons are given a mac and a wintel, each will incur similar cost figures...

i have owned both...mac is (by far) more expensive (almost double) for an educated user. For the uneducated, "dont really want to learn" user, it could even up, depending on use and abuse.

Links to research with cost breakdowns?

A 2002 Garner study concluded that Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) for the mac platform were LESS than PC based.

“In 2002 the respected technology research company Gartner concluded a major study of Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) between Macintosh and Windows-based platforms. According to Gartner's study Macintosh computers are 36 percent cheaper to run than Windows PCs. In their report the primary reason why Macintosh computers had a lower TCO is because they require less technical support and hardware and software costs were also lower. This translated into direct savings of 25 percent for similar sized organizations.

Moreover, the Gartner study revealed that users felt happier about using Macs than users felt about their PCs. Gartner notes that users on the Mac platform require less technical support and less formal training which may contribute to happier end users. This too generated cost savings due to productivity gains.

The 2002 AEC CAD IT Study by Architosh reveals the leading IT areas within AEC organizations where Macintosh firms gain cost saving advantages over Windows and mixed-platform firms. Of the five key findings in the Architosh study one finding was detrimental to the Macintosh's Total Cost of Ownership average: initial hardware cost (IHC). Back in 2002 the findings revealed that Macintosh only firms spent 12 percent more on initial hardware costs but kept their hardware longer on average than mixed platform and Windows-only firms.”

SNIP

“In a feature report on Architosh, one of the world's leading CAD (computer-aided design) software developers (who produce software on both Mac and Windows platforms) have shared internal performance test scores with Architosh which reveal just how much more powerful Apple Power Mac G5 systems are than competing Intel-based Windows systems in the same price range. At this point in time Apple's professional Power Mac G5 systems have no equal competition at any price in the PC space. (see Apple G5: Smokes Intel Competition)

In addition to Apple's continued use of standard industry components in its systems -- which led to more price competitiveness with Wintel -- Apple has scored a major victory in the adoption of IBM's phenomenally powerful 64-bit PowerPC 97x microprocessors which are at the heart of Apple G5 systems (Power Macs and Xserve servers). These processors from IBM yield substantial performance advantages for Apple in three major areas: 1) floating-point calculation performance, 2) systems bus connectivity performance, and 3) physical size and energy requirements. In addition the chips yield advantages when software is written for its 64-bit data registers or its extended memory capacity. Apple systems can support up to 8 GB of RAM on current motherboard designs compared to the 4 GB limit on Intel 32-bit processors.”

Read more here – Opinion: Macintosh OS X Platform To Extend TCO Advantage in Near Future
<http://www.architosh.com/news/2004-0...mac-tco.phtml>

--------------------------------------------------------

Now getting back to the original poster – I would also look to future trends when making a decision like this – take a look at the following for life beyond WinXP:

Microsoft Windows is Officially Broken

Here is the link to the LONG article:
<http://www.smartofficenews.com.au/Co...News/E5T7U6H8>

Microsoft Windows Is Officially Broken

David Richards & WSJ - Monday, 26 September 2005

Windows is broken and Microsoft has admitted it. In an unprecedented attempt to explain its Longhorn problems and how it abandoned its traditional way of working, the normally secretive software giant has given unparalleled access to The Wall Street Journal, even revealing how Vice President Jim Allchin, personally broke the bad news to Bill Gates.

-------------------

B

[gerax]

Hi

I'm chiming in just to answer you n°4 question:

I think the most easy and convenient solution to work with video within Pro Tools/XP is to get a dedicated video card that will allow you to have your Mix/Edit window (or both) and a second output that will mirror the QT playback window within PT.
I chose to go with the Matrox P750 (I actually was one of the guinea pigs for it, as it wasn't even supported when I got it...but this is another story), but the Parhelia could be even better; it's a triple head video card that con be configured to work in a number of ways: there's a configuration that allows you to run 2 VGA monitors for mix and edit windows and a third output (achieved with the included splitter cable) that can be S-Video or Video, to a TV set, plasma screen, LCD, video projector...whatever you like that can accept that kind of video signal.
Once you have configured the Matrox Powerdesk the right way, and installed the updated drivers (also you'll need Microsoft NET framework 1.1) the QT video from pro Tools automatically jumps to the video output on your big screen!. Perfect sync, no latency, scrub playback and half speed just work. The only minor drawback is that you HAVE TO USE a particular version of Quick Time (6.3) as Apple decided to drop overlay support in the following versions, that thus don't work...but 6.3 is perfectly compatible with XP.
As for video codecs I tried many among those supported by PT, and found the best to be DV. Yes, files would be big, but I belive that a dedicated S-ATA drive could hold and entire movie; you are rewarded with great picture quality (almost as the opto print) and the decompression isn't as heavy on the CPU as it is with .AVI or .Mpeg, thus you get a smoother playback with no glitches and less CPU strain.

You can find lots of infos on how to set it up on the PT for Post forum, as I contributed in making it work (and I think its' amazing now).

Hope this helps

L.G.