Mbox 2 latency questions

[Jackcmuzic]

Hey all, I am sure this question is getting old by now, but I was wondering if anyone may have a few tips. I have been a long time Pro Tools user of HD, TDM and 001 systems, but I just recently bought an Mbox 2 to do a remote vocal session. The latency in this thing is killing me and I am a little worried about using it for this up coming session. I mean using the mix knob is all fine for just making a full take, but what about doing overdubs? I am used to doing lots of punches and fixes for singers in tracks and with this latency problem, I am a worried. The mix knob just doesn't cut it for me in an overdub situation. I prefer to hear what is coming off of tape (or should I say disc). If anyone has any suggestions please let me know ASAP!

[albee1952]

WHat buffer setting are you using? The lower, the better. If you have too many tracks, I suggest doing a quick bounce>disable all>drag the new bounce onto a track and do your overdubs to that. That should allow you to run at 64 or 128 where the latency will not be a problem.

[The Dougfather]

Just mute the track you are recording. This you way you here whats going in and not the reverb type latent signal coming out.

Regards

[Jackcmuzic]

The hardware buffer size is always the first go to in this situation, but with the Mbox 2 the lowest you can go is 128 which doesn't make any sense, because all other LE hardware goes to 64. Usually 128 will do, but not with the new Mbox 2. It is very noticeable.
And this is only with a few audio tracks.

[Jackcmuzic]

When overdubbing you can't just mute the track you are recording to. This whole mentality just doesn't make sense. I have read this in other places. If there is nothing on the track well it is OK to mute the track you are recording too. But when overdubbing you are punching in on existing material. You have to hear what is already there so you cannot mute it. For vocals when you are punching only certain words and phrases, you have to hear what is already on the track you are fixing. This latency is making all the punches sound late. I mean I can't believe that the Mbox 2 is really this bad. I am running a powerbook G4 1.33 GHz with 1.25 GB RAM. This computer should not be the problem with only a few tracks running.

[Slim Shady]

It's not just the MBox, all LE/M-Powered systems are going to have latency, at least the Mbox2 can go down to 128ms, the original Mbox could only do 256. If that's not enough, then you should look at a firewire based approach, like one of the M-Powered boxes, which are still very portable (about the same size as an Mbox actually) and can go down to 64ms buffer size.

Also, If you use your mouse, you can mute/un-mute the track whenever necessary during punches (hit mute when you get to the punch point - if you lock an individual fader window on the screen, it's even easier). This in combination with the proper Mix knob setting should get you through at least 90% of your punch-in sessions.

The best approach though, is to use external gear (preamp/mixer) so that you monitor before you even get to the converters, but that's not really an option if your main goal is portability.

[Jackcmuzic]

My old 001 was never this bad with latency. I got the Mbox2 for portability as I mentioned before, but now I wish I would have gone with M powered. I liked the software package better with the Mbox 2 (includes Reason). The firewire seems to be the way to go. I have no idea why they would still be using this USB 1 if it is this latent. The whole unmute thing is a major pain and the mix knob is virtually useless if doing punches. I think the new Mbox2 will be going on ebay pretty soon, it is totally not acceptable for me. It just sounded like it would be perfect for remote sessions when moving a bigger system would be a pain. I am wondering if using the digital inputs may lower the latency a little, if the Mbox doesn't have to do the conversion. Or if there are any other software changes I could make to speed it all up a little. I mean the tracks all play back great, it is just the input signals are bad.

[Slim Shady]

My old 001 was never this bad with latency.

Yeah, that was a PCI card, which could do 64ms buffer size, as well as having a Low Latency monitoring mode... it just isn't possible with USB. Using a A/D converter isn't going to help, unless you monitor before the converters and use a mixer to mix the mic and PT signals together.

You should really check out the M-Powered stuff, like the FW410 or FW1814. I use the 1814 on another rig, and with it's built-in software router/mixer, you basically have a built in mixer which would solve your latency problem. Using the hardware's control panel, you can set up a headphone signal that's monitoring the pres before they get to the converters, and you can even bus an external reverb in if you want... although you still have to manually mute the track at the punch point in PT. You might also be ok with the 64 buffer size and not have to use the software mixer, but at least it's an option.

[mobilemac'nstrat]

What about recording your punch-ins to an adjacent (muted) audio track (whilst monitoring the 'target' track) then dragging to the desired track after recording?
Not ideal, I know but it should work.

[levyproject]

overdubbing shouldnt be a huge issue with the Mbox2.......i didnt run into any problems as far as that........mix knob should fix the problem...................but have u connected a keyboard to your line inputs??........for some reason the Mbox2 has ridiculously hot line inputs..........im running my motif/triton extreme through the DIs for now.....its working with the Pads so why not
........at first the Mbox2 didnt meet my expectations.........but with time u figure it out........adjust your buffer size along withthe mix knob and u should be set.............also the INPUT MONITORING ONLY could be your issure......MBOX2 is not as bad as it seems......Just get used to it a bit