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  #1  
Old 07-12-2011, 08:53 PM
jasenj1 jasenj1 is offline
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Default VENUE Link and MADI of limited value?

I just had a very frustrating evening with our new D-Show and Pro Tools (HD 8.1) rig. We have two MADI cards in the VENUE feeding two HD MADI interfaces. Just like this.

The FOH guys that run the D-Show spent time configuring the inputs and labeling channels. e.g. Stage Rack 1, Analog Card A, Input 1 is mapped to input "WM-1" and assigned to fader 1.

On the Pro Tools rig, I tried to use VENUE Link to pull over all of this configuration. Unfortunately, it did not work. The only channels that came over were a couple explicitly mapped to some of the MADI "assignable" channels - e.g. FOH Rack, Input 1 labeled "iPod" and assigned to output MADI 1 49.

I really hope we're doing something wrong and this is supposed to all work like magic like I think it should. Otherwise, I will need to map the Pro Tools I/O setup to the Stage Rack inputs manually, and then configure all the tracks/channels by hand. Which is not the end of the world - the FOH guys are having to do it, but I was expecting VENUE Link to take care of this for us.

Any tips on what we might be doing wrong?

- Jasen.
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2011, 10:34 PM
Avid Pro Mixing Support's Avatar
Avid Pro Mixing Support Avid Pro Mixing Support is offline
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Default Re: VENUE Link and MADI of limited value?

Jasen,

Is it possible that the HD MADI was not labeled properly in the I/O Setup window? Here's an excerpt from the Live Recording Guide (p.46):

VENUE MADI
When using a VENUE MADI card connected to an HD MADI interface, the HD MADI interface appears above the patching grid. The peripheral must use the following default names before importing VENUE settings:
• A HD MADI Port1
• A HD MADI Port2
• B HD MADI Port1
• B HD MADI Port2

These labels are actually critical to the VENUE Link function. Let us know if that does the trick.

Thanks,
Rich
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2011, 10:42 PM
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Kenmillerjr Kenmillerjr is offline
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Default Re: VENUE Link and MADI of limited value?

I don't have any of my toys with me right now, but a couple of things to check. Make sure the console is in "Input Mode" (vs Virtual Soundcheck) I am not sure if this could potentially cause a problem.

Make sure VENUE Link is enabled in Options > Interaction > Ethernet Control; and also check the settings in ProTools.

Once this is set, I have had no issues with creating a new session from VENUE with ProTools pulling over all of the input assignment routing and labeling from VENUE. Maybe Sheldon can chime in with anything else. It should be fairly simple.
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Ken Miller, Jr.
Audio Engineer
Southside Baptist Church | Warner Robins, GA

| VENUE Profile 96X64 with MADI Option | ProTools 7.4.2 HD3 Accel PCI | ProTools 10 Native | MacBook Pro 17" OS 10.7.1 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 8GB Ram | Mbox 2 Pro | Mbox 3 Pro | Motu 896mk3 Hybrid |
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  #4  
Old 07-13-2011, 03:09 AM
jasenj1 jasenj1 is offline
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Default Re: VENUE Link and MADI of limited value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avid Live Sound Support View Post
Is it possible that the HD MADI was not labeled properly in the I/O Setup window?
I think that is what's biting us. We had the "Sessions Overwrite Current I/O Setup When Opened" setting on. (From the Pro Tools manual: "This option is enabled by default.") And I think we opened some sample sessions or created a blank new one somewhere along the way - or I may have clicked "Default" in the I/O setup window. I was basically flailing around trying to get the stupid thing working; who knows what I did.

I know the MADI interfaces are not named as shown in the manual, they have "DigiLink" somewhere in the name. I'll rename them this evening and report back.

Thank you for the quick response.

- Jasen.

P.S. I have a question on our HD interface installation. The manual says that port 1 and port 2 of the HD MADI interface should be connected to the HD Accel cards. Our system has two HD MADI interfaces and an HD I/O interface. The installer connected ports 1 and 2 of one HD MADI to the Accel cards. The other HD MADI has port 1 going to an Accel card and port 2 is connected to the expansion port of the HD I/O. The HD I/O manual says, "The EXPANSION PORT passes input and output channels 17–32 to the expansion (or secondary) audio interface." which hints to me that the HD MADI connected through the expansion port may not have all its channels available.
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  #5  
Old 07-13-2011, 02:00 PM
jasenj1 jasenj1 is offline
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Default Re: VENUE Link and MADI of limited value?

No joy. Here's my I/O setup:
Link to album
direct link to picture 1
Direct Link to picture 2
(If you get a "Forbidden" error on the above direct links try opening them in a new window or new tab.)

If there's some way to change the name of the actual hardware device, I don't know how.

Nothing programmed on the VENUE is coming across now. But I know I still have connectivity; I just get a blank show.

Note: The second MADI card is connected to the expansion slot of the HD I/O. I do not appear to have the ability to change the name. I am using Pro Tools HD 8.1 with VENUE software 2.9.0.267.

I'm confused on the peripheral/interface name thing. In all the HD MADI documentation, the devices appear in the Pro Tools dialogs as "A HD MADI DigiLink 1" but the Live Recording Guide uses "A HD MADI Port 1". Is "Port" just a placeholder for the real value (DigiLink) or is there something screwy going on? Should I _NOT_ give the HD MADIs names? Maybe I should use the naming convention for "Other Pro Tools|HD Peripherals?"

Time to call support?

- Jasen.
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  #6  
Old 07-13-2011, 06:02 PM
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Kenmillerjr Kenmillerjr is offline
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Default Re: VENUE Link and MADI of limited value?

This baffles me...there is a venue software update 2.9.1

I'd say give that a shot before calling over to support.
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Ken Miller, Jr.
Audio Engineer
Southside Baptist Church | Warner Robins, GA

| VENUE Profile 96X64 with MADI Option | ProTools 7.4.2 HD3 Accel PCI | ProTools 10 Native | MacBook Pro 17" OS 10.7.1 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 8GB Ram | Mbox 2 Pro | Mbox 3 Pro | Motu 896mk3 Hybrid |
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  #7  
Old 07-13-2011, 07:07 PM
doug sjostrom doug sjostrom is offline
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Default Re: VENUE Link and MADI of limited value?

Name the first Madi "Stage1" 2nd Stage1 33 and 3rd Stage2 and try again. Let me know what happens.
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  #8  
Old 07-14-2011, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: VENUE Link and MADI of limited value?

Hi Jasen,

Sorry for the frustration. Here are a few thoughts I had after reading through this thread.

First off, is the VENUE system connected to Stage Racks, or is it receiving MADI from another system? The reason I ask is that VENUE Link keys off of Stage inputs 1-48 corresponding to MADI channels 1-48 when using VENUE + HD MADI.

Also, does the system contain one or two stage racks?

The hardware config as described - specifically, using the expansion port on the HD peripheral to pass the second MADI port - is a bit unusual. This doesn't mean it won't work, just that we might be in uncharted territory. At minimum, only the last 16 channels of the second MADI interface would pass, which correspond to MADI Assignable 49-64 in the VENUE patchbay.

To troubleshoot this, it might be best to simply the system and then build up piece by piece. Something like this:
  1. Connect only a single HD MADI (both ports) to the first Core and Accel card
  2. Launch PT, delete all I/O paths and then recreate the paths using the Default button. This should create 64 I/O paths.
  3. Create a new session from VENUE. If the console is in stage mode you should see tracks created for all input ch's patched to stage inputs, as well as any assignable channels patched in the patchbay
  4. Assuming the previous steps worked, connect both ports of the second MADI interface to the next two Accel cards.
  5. In PT, delete I/O setup paths again and recreate. It should now show two MADI devices, each with two ports. This should create 128 I/O paths.
  6. Create a new session from VENUE. On the Options>System page make sure the "Stage Mode" is set for Inputs 1-48 and 49-96. You should see tracks created for all input ch's patched to stage inputs, as well as any assignable channels patched in the patchbay
  7. Once this all works, change the cabling back to using the HD I/O and expansion port. Repeat I/O setup steps and see what happens...
Let us know how it goes.

Sheldon
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2011, 06:16 PM
jasenj1 jasenj1 is offline
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Default Re: VENUE Link and MADI of limited value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug sjostrom View Post
Name the first Madi "Stage1" 2nd Stage1 33 and 3rd Stage2 and try again. Let me know what happens.
Now we're getting somewhere! If I name the HD MADIs according to the above scheme, I get tracks/channels.

I can name the MADIs arbitrarily - so I can change the name from Stage1 to Stage2 and the assignments follow as you'd expect. So the lesson is to ignore what the manual says about using the default name and name the MADIs for the Stage Rack they are connected to.

BUT I still have one giant gotcha. That HD MADI connected through the HD I/O.
The first 32 channels are OK - they are connected directly to an HD Accel card. But the second 32 are lost. I cannot rename the device connected through the expansion connector so VENUE Link doesn't know about those channels. This kills us because we use all 48 channels in the second stage rack (all our wireless mics are connected there) and we use some of the 49-64 for things connected to the FOH Rack.

Thank you very much to everyone for your help sorting this out. We have an AVID rep coming sometime soon to give us training on the system. Maybe he can sneak us another HD Accel card.

- Jasen.
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  #10  
Old 07-14-2011, 06:51 PM
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Sheldon Radford Sheldon Radford is offline
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Default Re: VENUE Link and MADI of limited value?

Hi Jasen,

Glad to hear it's getting there. Just for grins I'd be curious what happens if you remove the HD I/O from the mix altogether, connect all ports of the two HD MADi interfaces and use the default names. That should work as advertised in the manual.

Is the PT rig an HD4 system (Core plus 3 Accel cards)? If so, and additional Accel card will be needed to support both HD MADI interfaces plus the additional HD I/O.

Sheldon
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