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  #1  
Old 05-04-2021, 02:42 PM
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Default The Satellite Link - or, I feel like a total n00b

So, I'm not sure why I didn't know that this works, or that it works so well. But I feel like a total n00b now that I have discovered the Satellite Link function in Protools.

And that fact that it is included free now, whereas you had to pay $750 for it earlier versions is downright amazing.

I just did a recording of a live operatic concert this weekend with my two Protools systems with the back up computer recording via DVS. We had a Sync HD to keep the audio for the main recording synced with the video recording. And I found out that you can enable the Satellite Link function with both computers connected to the same network switch.

And now that I'm back home and testing this out again, you don't even need the Sync HD to do it. It still works, at least with one computer running HD Native and one running regular Protools.

With the Satellite Link function enabled, I can:

1) record an exact duplicate back up recording with the exact same file lengths and start and stop recording at the same time with one press of a button.

2) Or, (with the right hardware I/O) I can extend my systems, and connect them to separate audio interfaces and record up to 64 channels through HD Native and another 32 channels through Protools vanilla. And then bring the files from the vanilla session into the main session in post and they all line up exactly.

The only thing that doesn't work right now, is the soloing and mute functions between systems. But I think that's probably because one is running Windows and one is running Mac OSX, which I guess is a small price to pay for 96 channels of recording without HDX.

And so far, it seems to work fine on a Dante network.

Avid needs to play up this feature in Protools. It's HUGE for anybody that does live redundant recording.
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Lenovo P50: quad-core i7-6820hq, 64GB, 2TB SSD, Win 10 Pro / Protools Ultimate 2023.6 / HD|Native-TB
2018 MacBook Pro: six-core i9, 32GB, 1TB, Monterey / Protools Studio 2023.6, / DVS / DAR, L-ISA Studio

Home/mobile: Focusrite Red 8Pre+HD32R / Clarett 4Pre
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Last edited by JCBigler; 05-04-2021 at 02:54 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-04-2021, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: The Satellite Link - or, I feel like a total n00b

Glad you are digging it. Satellite is extremely useful. For resolved long playbacks, it is always best practice to have common video ref for all the workstations with Sync HD or Sync X, however it is possible to get decent performance without.

Pro Tools 2020.12 added the ability for Pro Tools Ultimate Software to administer one Pro Tools or MC Video Satellite system - even without HD hardware. Basically you could be running an engine like DVS, DAB, Carbon or other Core Audio and still have Satellite functionality.

best,


Jeff
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  #3  
Old 05-04-2021, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: The Satellite Link - or, I feel like a total n00b

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Originally Posted by creativecontrol View Post
Pro Tools 2020.12 added the ability for Pro Tools Ultimate Software to administer one Pro Tools or MC Video Satellite system - even without HD hardware. Basically you could be running an engine like DVS, DAB, Carbon or other Core Audio and still have Satellite functionality.

best,


Jeff
Looks like I got in just under the wire, since I haven't upgraded to 2021.3.1 yet. Don't know how I missed it in the release notes, or maybe I just didn't understand what it was.

When running a Sync HD or Sync X, does the satellite station take it's clock source from the Administrator through the next work connection? Or is it best to connect both systems through word clock somehow? If I'm recording through Red 8Pre and HD Native, and the DVS system is taking it's clock from the same Red 8Pre does it still pull form the same clock source so it's a moot point?

Avid needs to play this feature up. I couldn't find hardly any info out there about it other than what's in the manual, which isn't super clear.
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Lenovo P50: quad-core i7-6820hq, 64GB, 2TB SSD, Win 10 Pro / Protools Ultimate 2023.6 / HD|Native-TB
2018 MacBook Pro: six-core i9, 32GB, 1TB, Monterey / Protools Studio 2023.6, / DVS / DAR, L-ISA Studio

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Old 05-04-2021, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: The Satellite Link - or, I feel like a total n00b

Best practices is distributing common Word Clock and Video Ref. You need to ensure that each of the workstations is receiving common digital clock. This could be Word coming out of a master DA -> sent to each interface / converter or this could be something like a MTRX as master clock in one room -> acting as the Dante Leader clock and other devices are locking to it over the network via PTP.

Again, best practices, HD video reference would be distributed to all of the (up to 12) systems on the Satellite network. Each of these workstations would ideally have a Sync HD or Sync X with an associated HDN or HDX system. Satellite Link uses the video ref signal to ensure that all of the systems are aligned, even over long playbacks.

While Satellite Link provides the gearlock between the systems - you still need to ensure you are distributing common digital clock reference between all of the systems.

best,


Jeff
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:08 PM
LukeHoward LukeHoward is offline
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Default Re: The Satellite Link - or, I feel like a total n00b

From memory, playback is sample accurate provided there is a common word clock, but will be offset by a non-deterministic number of samples on each successive playback unless you have a common video ref and Sync HD on every system.
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Old 05-05-2021, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: The Satellite Link - or, I feel like a total n00b

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Originally Posted by LukeHoward View Post
From memory, playback is sample accurate provided there is a common word clock, but will be offset by a non-deterministic number of samples on each successive playback unless you have a common video ref and Sync HD on every system.
What does this mean? That each time you hit play in the session that they will be more and more out of sync with each other?

In my use case, as a redundant recording system when I'm recording live events in an effort to make sure that they are both exactly the same length and start and stop at the same time; or in the rare case (not having encountered it yet though) that I need to record more than 64 channels at a time, I can use both systems to record at the same time also with the exact same start and stop and file lengths; it seems like that wouldn't be that big of a deal, since eventually I'll be working on a unified single session anyway.
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Lenovo P50: quad-core i7-6820hq, 64GB, 2TB SSD, Win 10 Pro / Protools Ultimate 2023.6 / HD|Native-TB
2018 MacBook Pro: six-core i9, 32GB, 1TB, Monterey / Protools Studio 2023.6, / DVS / DAR, L-ISA Studio

Home/mobile: Focusrite Red 8Pre+HD32R / Clarett 4Pre
Road/hotel: Roland OctaCaputre / Apogee One
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Old 05-05-2021, 07:33 PM
LukeHoward LukeHoward is offline
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Default Re: The Satellite Link - or, I feel like a total n00b

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Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
What does this mean? That each time you hit play in the session that they will be more and more out of sync with each other?
A variable but unknown amount - could be more, or less, but only with respect to the start position. They won't drift from each other once started, as long as they are resolved to a common word clock.

My test involved one machine running DVS and another with HDX/Sync HD etc.

I didn't test with two Sync HDs and a common video reference; presumably this does what it says on the tin, which is, the start time is precisely frame aligned.

Quote:
In my use case, as a redundant recording system when I'm recording live events in an effort to make sure that they are both exactly the same length and start and stop at the same time; or in the rare case (not having encountered it yet though) that I need to record more than 64 channels at a time, I can use both systems to record at the same time also with the exact same start and stop and file lengths; it seems like that wouldn't be that big of a deal, since eventually I'll be working on a unified single session anyway.
If it's just as a redundant recorded then it doesn't really matter (but Satellite probably doesn't provide as much value either). If you need to line sessions up from two machines without a common video reference, you could use a 2-pop or something.
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Old 05-05-2021, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: The Satellite Link - or, I feel like a total n00b

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Originally Posted by LukeHoward View Post
My test involved one machine running DVS and another with HDX/Sync HD etc.
So pretty much the same as my set up, one machine running HD Native and one running DVS. How do you clock the DVS system to the same video reference when DVS doesn't connect to a Sync HD with a video ref input?

Quote:
If it's just as a redundant recorded then it doesn't really matter (but Satellite probably doesn't provide as much value either). If you need to line sessions up from two machines without a common video reference, you could use a 2-pop or something.
What is a "2-pop"?

For my use case it just seems easier to enable the Satellite Link since I already have two systems and they are already both connected to the same switches. Then I just hit play one one machine and they both start and stop recording at the same time, and the cursors align on both systems. I guess this could also be used if one or more tracks on the main system got corrupted I can then import the files from the back up system if I need to.
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Lenovo P50: quad-core i7-6820hq, 64GB, 2TB SSD, Win 10 Pro / Protools Ultimate 2023.6 / HD|Native-TB
2018 MacBook Pro: six-core i9, 32GB, 1TB, Monterey / Protools Studio 2023.6, / DVS / DAR, L-ISA Studio

Home/mobile: Focusrite Red 8Pre+HD32R / Clarett 4Pre
Road/hotel: Roland OctaCaputre / Apogee One
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Old 05-05-2021, 07:41 PM
LukeHoward LukeHoward is offline
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Default Re: The Satellite Link - or, I feel like a total n00b

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Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
So pretty much the same as my set up, one machine running HD Native and one running DVS. How do you clock the DVS system to the same video reference when DVS doesn't connect to a Sync HD with a video ref input?
You can't. Both systems need to be HD Native or HDX, each with a Sync HD, to be resolved to a common video reference. I can imagine a day where this can be done in software using PTP (a mechanism for precisely synchronising time over networks) but, that day has not come yet, at least to the Pro Tools world.

Quote:
What is a "2-pop"?
Just a tone. But, you know, a click or anything you could use to align things (with tab to transient etc).
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: The Satellite Link - or, I feel like a total n00b

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Originally Posted by LukeHoward View Post
You can't. Both systems need to be HD Native or HDX, each with a Sync HD, to be resolved to a common video reference. I can imagine a day where this can be done in software using PTP (a mechanism for precisely synchronising time over networks) but, that day has not come yet, at least to the Pro Tools world.
That's supposed to be what AVB (or TSN, or whatever they are calling it this month) does. But, show me where I can download an AVB Virtual Soundcard, lol. Or an audio interface with AVB to Digilink connections.

But, If I have a Sync HD, which is connected to my HD Native box via the serial port. And the Focusrite Red 8 Pre is connected to the Sync HD by both Wordclock and the Loop Sync connectors, and the DVS inputs are being fed from the Dante outputs of the Red 8 Pre which is set to clock from the Wordclock...then everything should stay in sync for my purposes then, right?
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Lenovo P50: quad-core i7-6820hq, 64GB, 2TB SSD, Win 10 Pro / Protools Ultimate 2023.6 / HD|Native-TB
2018 MacBook Pro: six-core i9, 32GB, 1TB, Monterey / Protools Studio 2023.6, / DVS / DAR, L-ISA Studio

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Road/hotel: Roland OctaCaputre / Apogee One
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