Exporting a Mix, file types and metadata ?

[joe99]

Hello,

I'm mixing audio in Pro tools for an hour length documentary (final cut pro). If the editor wants the finished audio files to include frame and channel metadata does that mean that I should export OMF files? Also does channel info only matter if I mixed in surround (which I didn't)?
I mixed in one PT session but the editor mentioned reels and image track files being wrapped using KLV. (is that smpte)
any info is tremendously appreciated

joe

[Postman]

A BWav exported from Pro Tools will have frame rate and the number of channels. If you export as "stereo" files, then the file header will say it is 2 channels. If you export as "multi mono" then there will be two files with ".L" or ".R" in the file names. Any editor can figure that out with or without metadata. Just include a note about the exact timecode location the file should be placed at. Timecode start time is also contained in the BWav file header, when exported from Pro Tools, but a README spelling it out is good practice. If there is a 2-pop, include the timecode that should fall at, too. Again, good practice. I would think the editor will load in your audio and attach it to the video, so I don't see why he is talking about KLV as part of your delivery. Even if your files go directly to the next step in the delivery chain, BWav should give the necessary information.

KLV is geek speak for Key Length Value, which is more geek speak for metadata. MXL format includes KLV type of metadata. Some broadcast systems talk about KLV in their file handling workflows, but the use is somewhat system-specific as far as I know. It is used often with mpeg-2 streams. Honestly, it sounds like the editor doesn't know what exactly it is, either, so is covering his behind by passing along geek speak. A BWav export from Pro Tools should cover you perfectly.

Anyone with better information please step in.

By the way, if you are not working from reels now, you should be! But does the editor mean ACTS, like what happens between commercial breaks? You need to know exactly where the breaks are. It is nice to mix as a single session with no breaks but I always have trouble resolving sync and length differences when a full show is broken into "reels" later. Funny how "reels" get one or two frames longer or shorter.

[joe99]

Thank you!
Exactly the info I needed.

By reels do they just mean sections of the project? If so why would is that a better workflow and what steps are neccessary to make sure audio stays sync'ed? Splitting timeline at exact frames kinda thing?
Thanks again

[Postman]

By reels, they probably mean sections. Broadcast people sometimes call sections "reels", probably because in the really old days the sections were in fact finished on individual reels of film. 4 reels per hour of television.

Is this for broadcast? You haven't said one way or the other. Some outlets ask for versions with and without commercial breaks. You'll mix it one way and then be asked to deliver it both ways. Some outlets want only one, usually the uninterrupted, and put their own breaks in. The uninterrupted version is probably only used for DVD sales, I don't know. I've seen stuff I've worked on with the original breaks removed and other almost-random breaks put in with quick fades. Just make sure you get video for both versions, then deliver audio that drops onto each version in one pass.

In your first post you said "reels", which in the film world means separate reels. The audio has to be sync'd for each reel with a 2-pop. I worked on a film about two years ago that was started as a video film, no breaks, and then just as we finished we were required to break it into reels. One of the reel breaks had to be in the middle of a music cue. a couple of reels got longer or shorter by a frame, 1/24th second. We of course had to put "pullups" on each reel. Since we worked on video, 29.97fps, something called "field dominance" is critical. Anyhow, it was not quite as simple as just cutting at the edit points. I also had to instruct them to put 2-pops (and tail pops) on each reel.

[joe99]

This is a last minute mix for a project that I think might be going straight to DVD. Im not sure. The editor is trying to get me to quickly compose and edit parts of the soundbed as well. Essentially, the editor know very little about the audio process and after we reached an agreement (on just a quick mix of the sound) emailed me a 4 page word document with all of this geek speak and more add ons like it has to be in 5.1
I'm just giving him back a stereo BWav file with the 2 pop.
Thanks a ton for all this info, it has been supremely helpful.

Joe

[Noiz2]

It's not exactly geek speak, it's standard film post terms. If he wants stuff in reels I'm assuming he sent you reels. It's usually me trying to get this kind of info from the picture editor that on low budget epics tend to be a bit clueless about delivery specs.

If they didn't give you the film in reels then you should not send them "reels", in fact you can't. It's vaguely poss. that they worked in reels, send you the full film and then gave you reel break points but that would be a very bad way to work. If they are not going to a film out there is no reason for reels any way.

And FYI Reels are based on how much film fits on a standard "reel" of film. So editorial reels are 1,000 foot reels and projection reels (also Known as A/B Reels) are 2,000 foot reels. That translates to about 11 min and about 22 min, though generally 10 min and 20 min are used. A 35mm film when projected in a theatre is projected in aprox 20 min sections (reels) on alternating projectors. A lot of modern theatres use a different system but it doesn't change things the film still arrives on projection reels. To really do reels takes keeping in mind a number of technical requirements (warning about geek speak!!!) because you cant just split the film up. You need to put in pulldowns (a short bit of the incoming reel added to the end of the out going reel so the change over is smooth) and they need to be very specific.

From what you describe this didn't come to you on reels and I would give them a track that matches what they gave you. If they want to split it into reels I would have them do it or send you the correct files. The reel splits are chosen by the picture dept not the sound dept.

[joe99]

cool, that clears up my confusion about reels and will definitely help me with future projects. for this project i received OMF's and a reference DV that loaded into one session with no info about breaks. I just wanted to make sure that what I export will meet their professional expectations and now I'm confident it will.
Thanks again