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  #21  
Old 06-07-2021, 06:31 AM
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K Roche K Roche is offline
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Default Re: June update - hybrid info

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Originally Posted by LDS View Post
Interesting, and surprising quite counter-intuitive. If channels can be put into DSP Mode without input monitoring or record arm activated, I would have thought as many native plugins could be used before DSP plugins as you like, as the audio would be streaming from the hard disk and could be delay compensated for upon playback. Perhaps its a limitation of AVB with Carbon. Using DSP and Native plugins together is possible with HDX in its current form, it just costs additional voices. It might also be possible with the new hybrid engine, who knows.
I am guessing the difference in perspective may have to do with whether or not one has used HDX or not ??
For me never having used HDX the current Carbon Hybrid implementation seems like it could hardly be more intuitive
When you want DSP put the track in DSP and use DSP plugins
When you want to use a Native only plugin put the track in native .

And I am guessing the Focus some have shown on Input Monitoring and Record Enable as well as order of native or DSP plugins is something to with HDX because those things are not relevant in the current Carbon Hybrid implementation
Now how that may play out with this new HDX Hybrid has yet to be seen
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Last edited by K Roche; 06-07-2021 at 06:42 AM.
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  #22  
Old 06-07-2021, 07:01 AM
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K Roche K Roche is offline
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Default Re: June update - hybrid info

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Originally Posted by LDS View Post
But even then, the main issue I personally have with HDX isn't the lack of DSP during tracking, it's the inability to harness native power during mixing. My HDX1 card has been sitting on the shelf since 2019 as a result, in favour of a HD native card.
And this is exactly what the current Hybrid solution address . You can have some tracks in DSP and literally hundreds (I believe limited only by your computer) in native

Here is another off the cuff quicky screen recording where I experiment with DSP system usage etc.

Note in the video I am talking from my personal perspective on what would be "usual" and when I say "would be less" with audio on the tracks I mean less track count and or less numbers of plugins before maxing out Also note Carbon has 8 DSP chips so just under 1/2 what an HDX 1 card would be..

https://youtu.be/0Qz2lcE9I0Y
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"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

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Last edited by K Roche; 06-07-2021 at 07:23 AM.
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  #23  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:32 AM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: June update - hybrid info

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Originally Posted by K Roche View Post
Avid has kind of given a reason (or excuse ) being that If you simply use a Native reverb/delay the slight added latency will not be all that noticeable given those plugs feature having a delayed reverberation as part of the sound anyway ???

My self I happen to use an outboard hardware reverb as an insert so it's Aux track stays in DSP
Thanks again!

Personally I’d be quite happy dealing with extra native plug-in latency within reason. That said, doesn’t a native reverb on an aux get automatically bypassed when a track feeding it is switched to DSP mode? Or is there an option for that not to happen?
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  #24  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:33 AM
originalscottyg originalscottyg is offline
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Default Re: June update - hybrid info

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Originally Posted by LDS View Post
Voice usage is just fundamentally different in HDX compared to native. As an exacerbated example, thirty 7.1.2 aux channels with a single native plugin on each use 0 of the available 384 voices in HD native, while it will use all of the available 256 voices in a HDX1 system due to the DSP-based mix engine.

You can get around it to a degree by using only DSP plugins on aux channels... but you only have a limited amount of DSP too. I think it is the single most limiting factor of HDX, and presumably why the hybrid engine and DSP safe mode for aux channels was introduced.
It sounds like voices will no longer be an issue for HDX in Hybrid mode, as the default voice count for all Ultimate systems (regardless of hardware) will be 2048. I am guessing that the only exception to that will be running an HDX system in non-Hybrid mode, with the mix engine running the cards, which will probably force the voice count back to 256 voices per card.

Has there been any mention of whether HDX systems will still be able to run in "traditional" mode once Hybrid mode comes out?
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  #25  
Old 06-07-2021, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: June update - hybrid info

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Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
Thanks again!

Personally I’d be quite happy dealing with extra native plug-in latency within reason. That said, doesn’t a native reverb on an aux get automatically bypassed when a track feeding it is switched to DSP mode? Or is there an option for that not to happen?
Not if you put the reverb Aux track into DSP Safe Mode
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  #26  
Old 06-07-2021, 03:04 PM
digiot digiot is offline
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Default Re: June update - hybrid info

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Originally Posted by originalscottyg View Post
It sounds like voices will no longer be an issue for HDX in Hybrid mode, as the default voice count for all Ultimate systems (regardless of hardware) will be 2048. I am guessing that the only exception to that will be running an HDX system in non-Hybrid mode, with the mix engine running the cards, which will probably force the voice count back to 256 voices per card.

Has there been any mention of whether HDX systems will still be able to run in "traditional" mode once Hybrid mode comes out?
I was wondering this my self. I have both an HDX system and a Carbon. I miss being able to run Native plug-ins on the same track with DSP Plug-ins, on the Carbon Hybrid engine.
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  #27  
Old 06-07-2021, 04:40 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: June update - hybrid info

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Originally Posted by K Roche View Post
I am guessing the difference in perspective may have to do with whether or not one has used HDX or not ??
For me never having used HDX the current Carbon Hybrid implementation seems like it could hardly be more intuitive
When you want DSP put the track in DSP and use DSP plugins
When you want to use a Native only plugin put the track in native .

And I am guessing the Focus some have shown on Input Monitoring and Record Enable as well as order of native or DSP plugins is something to with HDX because those things are not relevant in the current Carbon Hybrid implementation
Now how that may play out with this new HDX Hybrid has yet to be seen
In some ways it isn't relevant if the Hybrid engine is running a decently stable dual buffer for the native side of things. The question was more a query from a classic voice point of view. Voices in Pro Tools DSP systems have historically always reflected something physical, like the number of available pathways through DSP, and the number of available pathways between DSP and the native system.

With HDX you can toss 10 native plugins on a playback channel, or use VIs followed by native plugins with no increased consequence on voice usage because the audio source already originates from the native system. It will stick around in the native system for all of the plugin processing, then be passed to the DSP mix engine.

The same doesn't seem to apply with Carbon, which is what lead to the input monitoring/record armed question. It just seems a bit strange that a playback channel can be put into DSP mode, yet can't host native plugins or VI's at the same time given the audio source is ultimately coming from the native system anyway. I can appreciate alternating DSP/Native/DSP not being an option, perhaps due to the limited pathways between DSP and Native in a carbon system.

In any case, I am looking forward to getting my mitts on this new release!
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  #28  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:59 PM
glogulus2003 glogulus2003 is offline
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Default Re: June update - hybrid info

Avid put up a video https://youtu.be/BnR6Wn_A5gM about HDX hybrid engine.
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  #29  
Old 06-08-2021, 12:58 AM
johnsimmons johnsimmons is offline
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Default Re: June update - hybrid info

Worth a watch, and a vague mention that more features in this June update as well but video focuses on the new Hybrid Engine. M1 updates in the works but not yet.
As a HDX owner who had relegated it to my second rig in favour of Native and all the benfits of that this Hybrid update is a welcome surprise hopefully giving the best of both worlds.
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  #30  
Old 06-08-2021, 11:25 AM
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K Roche K Roche is offline
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Default Re: June update - hybrid info

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Originally Posted by johnsimmons View Post
Worth a watch, and a vague mention that more features in this June update as well but video focuses on the new Hybrid Engine. M1 updates in the works but not yet.
As a HDX owner who had relegated it to my second rig in favour of Native and all the benfits of that this Hybrid update is a welcome surprise hopefully giving the best of both worlds.
I agree I have Carbon and I found some really good info in general about Hybrid .

I think 2 things mentioned that some have asked about are::
#1 no new hardware required because it will work with any Current HDX system
#2 HDX owners will have the option to run in either Hybrid HDX or as they call it Classic HDX
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Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2021.6 .....Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen processor,,128GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory,,2TB SSD storage,,Radeon Pro 5700 XT with 16GB of GDDR6 memory,, on Catalina 10.15.7

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

Enjoy the Journey
.... Kev...
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