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  #1  
Old 11-27-2011, 02:25 AM
xy44 xy44 is offline
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Default Realistic Drums (virtual)?

Ok here is a loaded question for you..
Can these drums sound like a real kit in a mix, afterall, they are samples from a real kit...??

Bascially im having tons of problems with them, still sound weak and non real in a full mix production. tried layering kits, layering snares, BD etc etc, tried busssing the drums through Parallel comp, still no good.. but the thing is I dont know exactly what it is thats missing..

Obv if budgets were limitless then a real drummer would be used of course. but its not and therfore we cant. - so we have to work with what we have
here is a mix to give an example.

http://soundcloud.com/and44/7-mix3

p.s Oh, I use oceanwaydrums.
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2011, 10:15 AM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Drums (virtual)?

They absolutely can sound great(and real) in a track. It comes down to a few things to really make it happen. #1 is likely laying out parts that a drummer would do. Thinking like a drummer really helps(remember things like that a drummer would not hit the hat and a crash at the same time). Getting consistent velocity so the hits sound like they were played by a drummer, paying attention to the song style. IOW, if its a rocking tune, you want the hits to sound like the drummer was playing hard, but a soft jazzy tune would call for lighter hits. Some folks are really good at "playing" the drum parts on a keyboard, but I prefer to play them in from a Roland TD10 kit(thanks to midi editing, even I can sound like i know how to play).

Then the mix may benefit from some normal drum mixing tips(I always split out the drums to individual tracks, whether I use SD2 or Addictive Drums). 2 tricks that help for me: I AUX send all the shell sounds to a stereo AUX track with a good compressor(I use Waves SSL compressor, but even BF76 will do). Moderate to heavy compression and mixing this track up behind the other drum tracks can fatten things up nicely.

Then, instead of using the room sounds from the plugin kit, I AUX send all to another stereo AUX track and insert a reverb plugin with a short room sound(it just sounds better to me). I send little or no kick drum to that room 'verb. Using tricks like these can help make the drums sound like YOU recorded them, as opposed to you using the same plugin that another 100 people used. Play around with those ideas and you may find what works for you
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2011, 04:03 PM
xy44 xy44 is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Drums (virtual)?

sure I get you..

Honestly Ive tried so many things.. (not just on this mix) but we have 13 recorded.. and now im at that final mix stage but the drawback for me is the drums just dont sound "there" on any of them...

In pro tools my "drums_buss" is bigger than anythign else, 3 BD's 2 Snrs' etc etc you get the idea.. layering drums liek no tommrow at times to get fullness where desired.

Tried sending some to differnt AUX tracks, snare, toms and BD mostly, to give it some push&pull from compressers, tried transient control too to give more sustain or less attack, sending through multiverbs...

...I even had the midi file in PT, and render each part out one by one. (took forever) - of diffent ambience setups, and to mimic exactly liek you would get from a studio recorded kit with 8-12 mics+4 rooms

natrually I treat them all with little EQ, comp and a bit of gain staging to help the "snap" but with all that said and done.. im still bitterly disapointed and really not sure what my next move really is..

The drums were played in from a TD9 and then just "humanised" and cleaned up.

So I dunnno.. totally all out of ideas...
I tried Addictive drums, the demo of Ezdrummer (didnt like it) - and Superior drummer is the same as EZ.. in that respect, so im confident the Oceanway drums are very very hard to beat. but yet, in my hands I guess not!. *sigh*

please dont be shy.. lets hear your say!
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:10 AM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Drums (virtual)?

I have to wonder if maybe you are over-complicating it Seems to me that choosing one good kit and treating it appropriately should do the job Sometimes we have too many options
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: Realistic Drums (virtual)?

Quote:
I tried Addictive drums, the demo of Ezdrummer (didnt like it) - and Superior drummer is the same as EZ.. in that respect, so im confident the Oceanway drums are very very hard to beat. but yet, in my hands I guess not!. *sigh*
I don't like EZD either, and I've worked quite a bit with it. But, SD is not the same as EZD, and that tells me that you've just tried SD, not worked with it for a while. It really takes a long time to become a good mixing engineer, and I know this all too well. I've spent many years on this, and I'm still nowhere near my mixing heroes.

Now, I'm sure Oceanway drums are great, and it is a matter of personal preference. I use SD, and love it.

Regarding the drum mix:
  • the high tom (first heard @ 0:18) sounds too loud to me, and too far to the left; it kinda jumps out of the mix. Furthermore, that particular tom is the one with the strongest machine gun effect
  • the snare sounds too bright and wide (right-heavy) to my taste. It lacks some centered low-end content and attack
Other than that, I think you're well on your way towards a good mix. We all hear things differently, and want different things in a mix. Take breaks often, and if you are stuck and don't know what to do with a song - jump to the next one. I see this so many times with people. They work and struggle for so long with something, and they just end up hating the song, and/or the mix.

All the best!
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:53 PM
xy44 xy44 is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Drums (virtual)?

ok, how would you tackle the snare?
give it a cut around 400-800 hz? or even boost it...

for the attack would you use trans plugin? or simply overcompress on another buss?
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Realistic Drums (virtual)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xy44 View Post
ok, how would you tackle the snare?
give it a cut around 400-800 hz? or even boost it...

for the attack would you use trans plugin? or simply overcompress on another buss?
I would definitely not cut any more. I would try layering with another snare, something like a 6.5 x 14" Ludwig black beauty or similar. The overall snare sound could use some weight to it - there's enough sizzle already.

I don't use transient plugins. I usually use an 1176 to shape the sound, and sometimes a plugin with slower attack settings to let more of the transient through. McDSP has something called BITE, which essentially lets through more of the transients the higher the value.

You could try parallel compression, but I generally don't "overcompress" anything. It just sucks the life out of the sound for me, and I don't like it. I use parallell compression to get more sustain and ambience, and to get more cymbal sizzle.
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2011, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: Realistic Drums (virtual)?

If you have good basic sounds recorded, check to see if Waves offers a demo of the JJP Signature drum plugin. It can work wonders!!! I just started experimenting with it and have been pretty knocked out by it
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:46 PM
xy44 xy44 is offline
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Default Re: Realistic Drums (virtual)?

Thanks PT, some intersting comments

@Albee, JJP plugin crashes my PT for some odd reason, "just" that one aswell, all others are fine.. no idea as to why, runs fine under cubase. - i'll re-install them later and give it another shot, thanks for the heads up!.
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Realistic Drums (virtual)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xy44 View Post
Thanks PT, some intersting comments

@Albee, JJP plugin crashes my PT for some odd reason, "just" that one aswell, all others are fine.. no idea as to why, runs fine under cubase. - i'll re-install them later and give it another shot, thanks for the heads up!.
That's a bummer
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