Help with UnWrap Stereo to 5.1

[Eric Seaberg]

We're finishing up a film that was original only for television release but have had multiple theaters in the US and UK as for it. It will be converted to 24FPS DCP format for the theaters but they also require 5.1 audio.

We originally had UpWrap on our TC6000 but when it was upgraded to MarkII we lost it due to a serial number issue of the original purchase.

All that to say, I know there's lot of plugins available to do what we want... I've got lots of orchestra stems, exterior ambiences and other FX that would be easy to unwrap, leaving most of the foley as stereo and dialogue center with a little bit of L-R spread.

I know WAVES has DTS Neural as well as UM225/226. Nugen has Halo Upmix and there's a newcomer Penteo.

Anyone have recommendations?

The other option is we send the stereo project stems to a post house in LA and just let them do it, but I'd love to have a little more control.


Thanks!! We are under a deadline... obviously.

[its2loud]

Penteo 16 or Nugen Halo

Both will upmix from stereo. I prefer Penteo myself.

You’ll need to be careful with the dialog stem. Depending on the film and scenes you might just be better off remixing that stem with what you have, keeping it anchored in the Center with maybe some reverbs to add to surrounds to give it some space.

Hopefully you have a Foley and Steps stem as well which will require the same nuance.

[Farhoof]

I've done this a lot by now. Many tools can get the job done. Both Penteo and Nugen Halo are great tools. I would prefer Nugen Halo as it gives a bit more settings to tweak (mainly the diffusion setting). I assume you will upmix using stems?
Nugen Halo has an dialog detection thing which I prefer not to use, just panning to center within Halo will probably be ok. It will still send stereo information like reverbs to LR (and LsRs if you want). I personally don't like leaking dialog to LR (other than reverbs). Same approach to foley, let it stick to the dialog. FX more to LCR and a bit surround to taste. Ambience and music a bit wider and surround to taste. Each project/mix is different so there no single preset.

The most important thing is to sit in a theater like room and adjust your mix. 5.1 feels different (e.d. dialog less buried in ambience/music) so you'll want to adjust your mix for that.

[smurfyou]

I believe both Halo and Penteo have demos. Halo includes presets to get you started and has a little more control over the spread. I like the diffusion and shelf EQ. But I also use Penteo, sometimes I prefer its upmix. If I were to pick just one to use for both music and FX I’d go with Halo.

Waves DTS is actually decent but nowhere near as versatile. It’s been a long time since I used TC Unwrap but I think DTS might sound similar? But I wouldn’t want it as my only option.

UM226 has a terrible downmix. I don't care for it.

[Eric Seaberg]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, we have LOTS of stems and busses/groups to do whatever we want, including mono dialogue... which I may just keep that way. Leaning towards Halo and put an instance on the busses I want, leaving everything else alone.

Grateful for this group and all the experience you all have and the willingness to share!!


Thanks again!

[mgoorevich]

Originally Posted by Eric Seaberg

...The other option is we send the stereo project stems to a post house in LA and just let them do it, but I'd love to have a little more control.

This is a bit confusing....Assuming a production has the money to send it to a proper mix stage in LA, why there should be a compromise like an automatic up-mixing?
I think you have enough expertise to re-mix it to 5.1 by your self and maybe to save them some cash?
And you are right about having a control, if we talk about completed and broadcasted film - you want your 5.1 mix sound as close to original as possible.

Regarding the up-mixing plugins Halo sounds more natural on SFX, FOL and BG's and classical music, while Penteo is brilliant on rock/pop and some jazz music.

[Eric Seaberg]

We're not sending it to a mix stage... not enough time... we were just sending stems so they could unwrap as needed. Again the priority is stereo Television release and I'm out of time for a 5.1 remix. Halo will be GREAT on BG and SFX. Foley I'm not sure about as it's all automated panning of mono tracks... and a full classical score, so it should work well.

Nugen does offer a 15-day trial, so I'll spend some time playing this weekend in our mix suite on the SSL C200. Again, had we known about the theater release sooner I would've done a full remix.


Thanks for the reply!

[dr sound]

Put the Dialog down the Center. Put The Foley Down the Center.
Upmix the SFX, BG's and Music.
Use Halo. It sounds way better than Penteo.
Stay FAR AWAY from the Waves UM225/226.

[Eric Seaberg]

Yup, what I was thinking. Just got the Halo 15-day demo to try it.

Thanks for the reply!!

[Eric Seaberg]

Originally Posted by dr sound

Put the Dialog down the Center. Put The Foley Down the Center.

Can I ask a stupid question? Does NO ONE do any panning on foley... either footsteps, props, etc.? I have spent TONS of time so far matching action on screen with what the foley guys did. It makes a huge difference to me as I sit there and watch, but most viewers won't care... and it does take a lot of time automating all those moves.

Just curious!