AAE 9073 error - sound cutting out and freezing on multitrack

[dominicperry]

OK, I just took your vocal_main.wav file (which is mono 44.1/32) and pulled it into a 96KHz session and also let PT convert it to a 96/32 file. I put 7-8 tracks of each - total 15 tracks - all staggered down the timeline, so they were all playing at once, but at different times. No problem. It also plays happily in QuickTime on the Mac using SRC from 44.1 to 96 through a different interface.
So I highly doubt the audio file is a problem.

Dominic

[Ben Jenssen]

Deleted.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by dominicperry

One of the (many) reasons that PT takes so long to load when you start it up is that it is caching all the plugins. So yes, it doesn't matter where you install the plugins, it will cache them.
Except, you REALLY shouldn't be installing plugins on an external drive. As in DON'T.

Dominic

Uh I'm not quite following this and it has some incorrect statements and implications.

Pro Tools does not actually cache plugins anywhere. The term cache is used loosely for the InstalledAAXPlugIns preferences file where it "caches" some information about the plugins, it does not cache actual plugins. Plugins need to be in the correct plugin folder to work.

Pro Tools is slower than normal to start up after you trash the InstalledAAXPlugIns file because its building a new cache of information in a new InstalledAAXPlugIns about the plugins. Pro Tools is routinely slow to start up even when the InstalledAAXPlugins file is there and working correctly, each plugin file needs to be loaded from the plugin directly into memory, licensing confirmed, the plugin gets to run some initialization code, etc. There is a lot going on.

There is one and only one location that AAX plugins can be installed: C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins which is where all Pro Tools plugin installers will put plugins. They will not be detected by Pro Tools and will not work from any other location.

[dominicperry]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Uh I'm not quite following this and it has some incorrect statements and implications.

Pro Tools does not actually cache plugins anywhere.

Fair enough. I made the assumption that the thing called "Installed AAX Plugins Cache" was a cache of the installed AAX plugins. Clearly not true.

Your original point does, of course, still stand, which is that PT can throw a fit because of an installed plugin, even if that plugin isn't used in a session.

My other point is that PT is really really slow to load, even on a fast machine. I've never understood why. It doesn't use loads of single core or multi core CPU, little memory, and little disk. And yet it takes forever.
And that's without having to scan any new plugins. But complete OT for this problem.

Dominic

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by ahughes3

Also @DarrylRamm, can you help me find where to see the 3rd party plugins might have installed to and how I can remove them please?

As I mentioned, I don't install any plugins inside Pro Tools so I don't know where else to look to check.

I don't understand what you mean by "I don't install any plugins inside Pro Tools". You mean there are no plugin files in the C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins (then you are all set...) or you mean you did not do an in-product purchase of plugins? (nobody really does that), or you did not install any third party plugins ever on the computer (then it's not an issue)? Or if you did install any third party plugins you don't remember them asking you about installing plugins for AAX/Pro Tools (that one is the trap I want you to avoid).

There is one and only one location Pro Tools will load plugins from and that is C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins

When you install third party plugins for any DAW the plugin installers may or may not install plugins in multiple formats, some will give you a choice of what formats you want to install, some will just install them all. Even if Pro Tools was not then installed on the computer you may end up with those plugins installed in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins. Later when you install Pro Tools it discovers these third party plugins that were installed in the past, and since plugins can cause all sorts of problems... you need to troubleshoot by manually removing *all* the .aaxplugin files from C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins. Uninstalling and reinstalling Pro Tools, or trashing prefs, or sacrificing goats, does not remove these plugins, you have to test starting by moving *all* .aaxplugin files out of that folder.

The installers all know where to put the plugins for compatibility with the different DAWs so if any third party plugins you installed for Cubase also installed AAX plugins they will have installed them in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins. So you just look there and do what I've already clearly described and move all .aaxplugin files (and any sub-directories containing .aaxplugin files) out of that folder and just out them anywhere else. Traditionally folks will put them in the Plug-Ins (Unused) folder, but any other location is fine, since Pro Tools only looks to load Plugins from C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins.

And since InstalledAAXPlugIns "cache" got mentioned above, after moving all .aaxplugin files out of the plugin folder I usually trash prefs before restarting Pro Tools. In large part it is a good habit to trash prefs between other troubleshooting tests. Here Pro Tools should detect the plugins are all gone and delete the cache anyhow (and having that "cache" file there but not the plugin files in the right folder cannot ever let the plugin install or run), but I just like to make sure in case the cache is horribly corrupted and causes other problems.

Plugin installers know what they are doing, don't mess with them without understanding what you are doing. When you install any AAX plugin you must not try to change the location that the installer uses to install plugins anywhere else. The plugins must be in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins. Installers for sample based virtual instumenrts may let you pick a different location for the sample files, but then the installer is only installing the samples in that location (and they are never in the plugin folder to start with), and updating some internal information so the plugin can find the samples, the actual virtual instrument plugin always has to be in the plugin folder. Most VIs will also give you some way of manually moving the sample libraries and updating or finding where you put them after the install. Likewise Pro Tools itself can only be installed on the C: drive, never try to change its install location.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by dominicperry

My other point is that PT is really really slow to load, even on a fast machine. I've never understood why. It doesn't use loads of single core or multi core CPU, little memory, and little disk. And yet it takes forever.
And that's without having to scan any new plugins. But complete OT for this problem.

Staying off-thread...

It is slow for the reasons I mentioned, Pro Tools is doing a lot of different stuff to get those plugins actually installed and running, including stuff that might even result in network calls to remote servers (e.g. for code signing), it's fairly single threaded for technical reasons (even if you see the load jumping around across different cores).

And on Windows, the easiest way to get *disastrous* plugin load performance is to have antivirus software installed that scans plugins at load time. Get that crap disabled or better, uninstalled off the PC.

Corrupt InstalledAAXPlugIns files can also occasionally seem to cause slow load problems (so try trashing them... if you have a lot of plugins installed make a backup of the file first in case you run into worse problems). Of course the next startup while it rebuilds the InstalledAAXPlugIns file is going to be slow. Incomplete InstalledAAXPlugIns where Pro Tools starts over rescanning plugins when you have many plugins and crashes is a well known problem and complete PITA. The other thing is just prune plugins, get rid of stuff you never use, and especially any out of date or old demo plugins etc. They may well be causing multiple problems.

[ahughes3]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Or if you did install any third party plugins you don't remember them asking you about installing plugins for AAX/Pro Tools (that one is the trap I want you to avoid).

I think this is what I've done. When I download a plugin, I place the file contents in a separate drive, then I run the installer. When it's installing, I had assumed that I'd chosen that same location to install the actual plugin. But, as you've mentioned below, I can now see references to these 3rd party plugins in the location below.

There is one and only one location Pro Tools will load plugins from and that is C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins

Yup, this is where I see the 3rd party aax files. So, I'm going to remove all of them, even the pro tools ones. Then test the file again.

And since InstalledAAXPlugIns "cache" got mentioned above, after moving all .aaxplugin files out of the plugin folder I usually trash prefs before restarting Pro Tools. In large part it is a good habit to trash prefs between other troubleshooting tests. Here Pro Tools should detect the plugins are all gone and delete the cache anyhow (and having that "cache" file there but not the plugin files in the right folder cannot ever let the plugin install or run), but I just like to make sure in case the cache is horribly corrupted and causes other problems.

Ok, remove *all* plugins, trash preferences. I'm on it.

When you install any AAX plugin you must not try to change the location that the installer uses to install plugins anywhere else. The plugins must be in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins.

Maybe this is what I attempted to do, funnily enough so that if a plugin was corrupt I could remove it easily. Foolish me.

[ahughes3]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

I saw that the file was 44.1/32, created a blank PT session at 44.1/32 and put the file on a track without any conversion, and listened to "Gipsy Heart" vocal, all 3.30 min of it, and had no trouble at all with it.

I also opened the file in Amadeus Pro and played thru it without a hitch.

Thank you for trying it Ben. Just one thing, do you think it makes any difference that I converted from 44.1 to 48kHz? I suspect the answer is no, but I just wanted to check.

Thanks
Andy

[ahughes3]

Latest update:

Inside of the common files/.../avid folder where the "plugins" folder is, I created a new folder and copy/pasted all the plugins out of the "plugin" folder into the new folder. I then deleted everything inside the plugins folder.

Then I went and trashed the preferences %appdata%..../pro tools. So I now definitely should not have any plugins!

Then I emptied the windows trash, restarted and tried the files again and I'm still getting the AAE 9073 error.

*** Edit ***

So i thought I still had the error, but when I tried to play a test track the Pro Tools virtual instrument xPand2 looked like it was still loaded for the midi. I checked the pro tools audio folder and sure enough, it's loaded. So I deleted it again and removed it from the track just to make sure it didn't try to reload.

Et voila! The tracks seem to be working without errors. I still need to play a bunch more I guess to confirm, but it looks like you were right all along Darryl.

If it is a plugin that is causing the problem, do I just load them back in one by one and test each time (I'm guessing that's a yes). Also, could it be the XPand2 plugin (Pro tools own) that is causing the issue? It seems odd as it Pro Tools own plugin, but it does seem that when I deleted it, things started working.

[ahughes3]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

So now you're giving advice? Well...

I've been using Pro Tools since the late nineties, and other audio software before that, and I've never once heard of a "corrupted audio clip" causing a DAW to break down.

Apologies Ben, I was utterly convinced it was the file. Now I realise it is not. It now seems that Darryl was right all along, it is the plugins I think.

Thanks again
Andy