Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Hardware > Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-12-2014, 04:40 PM
Emcha_audio's Avatar
Emcha_audio Emcha_audio is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montréal, canada
Posts: 6,752
Default Re: Monitoring while recording with native plugins in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandonx1 View Post
Actually, TDM has more resolution than 32 bit float if gain staged properly. I don't think it makes on lick of difference and sense you don't have to gain stage 32 bit float correctly at all. 32 bit float wins for me. If you really want to get down to the math, 32 bit float is inferior. Functionally it's way better.
Tdm summing buss was 48 bit fixed point. Hdn hdx and pro tool 9 and up hqve 64 bit double precision.

You are mixing the summing engine and the plugin processing in which tdm has a 24 bit fix plugin processing vs 32 bit float for hdn hdx and pro tolls 9 and over. At 24 bit fixed you have less headroom than the 32 bit float, which is why gain staging management was crucial so that you would not distort within the plugins
__________________
Manny.

Wave-T.com
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-13-2014, 08:24 AM
WernerF WernerF is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: Monitoring while recording with native plugins in HD

I think that we would all be remiss if we didn't factor the incredible power of the mind and psyche, in the form of expectation bias, into this question. In the past Avid engineers, when they used to come onto this forum, have stated that there should be absolutely no difference in the sound of Native and TDM systems. Nothing has changed since then besides the fact that now both Native and DSP systems have the same summing architecture. To conclude that this is for sound quality reasons only or at all is erroneous at best.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-13-2014, 09:10 AM
YYR123's Avatar
YYR123 YYR123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 13,737
Default Re: Monitoring while recording with native plugins in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerF View Post
the fact that now both Native and DSP systems have the same summing architecture. To conclude that this is for sound quality reasons only or at all is erroneous at best.

What?
They sure didn't waste that time coding b/c it was going to make it worse.

And if avid is not in the sound quality market I don't know what market they are in.
__________________
Daniel
HDX - PT12.5.1 - HD I/O 16x8x8
Win10-Pro (v1709)- 6 Core i7-6850k - ASUS X99 Deluxe ii
D-Command Main Unit - 'Ole Blue


http://www.sknoteaudio.com/ plugins rock and are affordable.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-13-2014, 09:04 PM
WernerF WernerF is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: Monitoring while recording with native plugins in HD

Ok, so you're gonna be one of the folks making those erroneous conclusions. Hey, what are ya gonna do except say; rock on with your bad self then.

Just please don't forget about the expectation bias stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-13-2014, 10:32 PM
YYR123's Avatar
YYR123 YYR123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 13,737
Default Re: Monitoring while recording with native plugins in HD

So I don't propose to know the math, if I did I would probably be working for avid or another like them, however to say that this would not be an improvement in architecture (sound or quality, or leading to an improved software model) would be a bit short sighted, I would think

Otherwise they would have made native follow to TDM's standard.

Now we can all swallow the pill we want to swallow (expectation bias) but I would not expect a company that makes its money in audio to go backwards in its tech development. Because if it did it would be to its own detriment, which is not self sustaining
__________________
Daniel
HDX - PT12.5.1 - HD I/O 16x8x8
Win10-Pro (v1709)- 6 Core i7-6850k - ASUS X99 Deluxe ii
D-Command Main Unit - 'Ole Blue


http://www.sknoteaudio.com/ plugins rock and are affordable.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-14-2014, 08:56 PM
WernerF WernerF is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 3,052
Default Re: Monitoring while recording with native plugins in HD

Are you saying that Avid as a rule makes self sustaining marketplace decisions? If you mean short term sustaining then I would agree with you. Unfortunately, these short term market plans rarely involve improved product based decisions. They almost always involve short term extra cash business decisions like firing longtime staff and outsourcing code writing. These type of decisions rarely result in a better product. The better product usually happens despite the management decisions.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-14-2014, 10:35 PM
YYR123's Avatar
YYR123 YYR123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 13,737
Default Re: Monitoring while recording with native plugins in HD

Your right, it doesn't work out for the better. In fact I heard rumors about a future release might have an 8 bit fixed summing mixer.

Got to get that subscription now
__________________
Daniel
HDX - PT12.5.1 - HD I/O 16x8x8
Win10-Pro (v1709)- 6 Core i7-6850k - ASUS X99 Deluxe ii
D-Command Main Unit - 'Ole Blue


http://www.sknoteaudio.com/ plugins rock and are affordable.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-07-2022, 03:07 PM
gandlz gandlz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austria
Posts: 68
Default Re: Monitoring while recording with native plugins in HD

Hey I know this is old but still recent...

However, is there a way to avoid this behavior? I want Pro Tools to disable all native plugins also those after a DSP plugin.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-08-2022, 01:42 PM
DetroitT's Avatar
DetroitT DetroitT is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Detroit, Mi, USA
Posts: 2,594
Default Re: Monitoring while recording with native plugins in HD

In Hybrid Mode the above behavior no longer applies. It’s either or.
No mixing DSP before Native (record behavior)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-08-2023, 05:35 PM
gandlz gandlz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austria
Posts: 68
Default Re: Monitoring while recording with native plugins in HD

Well Hybrid mode seems to be no solution for me. It changes every plugin available to a DSP-plugin. Lots of plugins I don’t need while tracking and furthermore when recording the whole band the plugins are too much at all for my DSP cards. Don’t want to talk about crazy switching times and even more thinking about the native/DSP thing than in non-hybrid mode, for example to avoid disabling reverbs on aux tracks and so on.

I’m used to use just one channel strip plugin while recording for most of the times that’s set to DSP. Some drum gates where native and before that channel strip, so disabled automatically while on record. But then there are some heavy compressors and limiters after the channel strip which I also don’t want to have active while recording. So I have to make them inactive manually which sucks.

If you say zero-latency while recording is priority this doesn’t make sense to me. At least there should be an option to change this behavior. From programming side this must be no big deal. Audio from Interface to DSP-Mixer and back to Interface. Every plugin which would result in routing to the host-CPU must be skipped in record mode.

There might be scenarios where you need to use a native plugin which is not available as DSP-plugin while recording and can accept the latency or maybe latency is so low due to buffer setting and/or the plugin itself has no big latency. In this case you should just be able to activate this native plugin in record state manually.

Just my thoughts about it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which to buy, PT Native vs HDX? - I Need Input Monitoring rcd Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Win) 3 11-05-2014 08:59 AM
Does HD native or native native disable plugins when monitoring inputs? BasketCase Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Mac) 7 05-20-2013 08:48 AM
HD Native CUE Mixes Plugins and Recording Nathan W. Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Mac) 7 12-18-2012 02:38 PM
Input only monitoring in PT9 Native koo_koo_bonkers Post - Surround - Video 6 04-04-2011 08:02 PM
What recording software besides PT uses Native style plugins? peter parker 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 5 10-03-2002 11:04 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:39 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com