Help Setting up C24 with Outboard Gear

[cptsparrow]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently configuring a studio with some older equipment and I could some assistance in integrating the outboard gear. My questions are mainly centered on patchbay configuration with the C24 and how to route within Pro Tools.

I've attached a diagram and these are the questions I have:

1. Does everything look decent thus far, especially how I've configured the patchbay?

I am open to any advice and suggestions. Thanks, I really appreciate it.

[albee1952]

My 2 cents, but I think a patchbay is a waste of time for you(at least until you amass a lot more outboard gear). Assuming you have enough analog inputs between the pair of 192 IO's, just run the 16 preamps of the C24 to one 192, and feed the outboard preamps to the second 192. As easy as it is to get great reverbs via plugins, I'm not convinced of the value of the M4000, but its an easy hookup, either via SPDIF or a dedicated pair of ins and outs(assuming you don't intend on using the TC as an insert, the ins and outs don't need to be a matched pair). I would dedicate the better preamps to duties where you could use them without needing to chase patch cables(as in, the 430 is your "go to" vocal strip and the Neve's are always guitar and bass As many preamps(and flavors) as I had in my Nashville room, I very rarely re-patched much.

BTW, the C24 preamps are a bit hot so you may want to invest in some in-line XLR pads(at least until you move away for using them on loud stuff, like drums). If one of your 192's has 8 channels of digital in, the Midas XL48 has both analog and digital outs(AES and lightpipe) and is fantastic on drums

[cptsparrow]

Hi Dave,

First off, thank you so much for replying. I like what you're saying and I agree I want to keep the patching to a minimum. I forgot to mention how many outboard pieces I have (4 Focusrites and the 2 Neves), and so I've revamped my diagram taking your suggestions into account. Does this look good to you?

Thing is, now my TC is stranded and I'm not sure what to do. If I do indeed want to have the M4000 as a hardware insert, how would I go about that? Use 2 of the Line Outs 9-16 from the C24? And then two of those into the Input on 192 #2? Maybe this is an opportunity to bring patchbay back in. I'm thinking I might just buy a SPDIF cable but I've never learned how to "send" things to the unit via this connection.

I will definitely look into getting those XLR pads as the preamps are a bit hot.

[Darryl Ramm]

No the TC should normally be a Pro Tools hardware insert, unless you really wanted to track one physical mic input through it. Otherwise standard Pro Tools hardware insert between a matched input/output pair on you 192IO. Nothing to do with the C24, and well described in the 192 documentation. You can also do this digital, not sure what the problem is there. Maybe start by getting analog hardware inserts working properly.

Like Dave said... even better I would just not worry with that reverb, do it with plugins.

My goal with a C24 would be to avoid as much as possible anything but it being a control surface. But if you really need it’s preamps it’s monitoring section well I guess you have to.

[cptsparrow]

Thanks Darryl. I think I was really missing the mark here because I wasn't utilizing the Line Outputs from the 192s to go into the outboard gear.

Reason I'm so "diagram-happy" is because I'm not in the studio until later this week and when I get there I want to be ready in how to configure it effectively. So here's what is hopefully my final diagram that doesn't incorporate a patchbay.

From my XLR Box, I'm going 1-16 into the C24, the remaining Mic Channels I'm going to my Focusrites and the Neves Mic Input.

For my FIRST 192 I'm going Line Out 1-16 from the C24 into Analog Inputs 1-16, while Outputs 1-8 goes to the C24.

For the SECOND 192, I'm going Analog Outputs 1-8 into Line Inputs on the various outboard gear. Line Outs from that gear are going into Analog Inputs 1-8. They need to be matched accordingly in order to use them as hardware inserts.

Finally the TC I'll just use the SPDIF cable? I'll probably be using plugins more often but I think it'll be nice to have in the rack.

Thanks to both of you.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by cptsparrow

For the SECOND 192, I'm going Analog Outputs 1-8 into Line Inputs on the various outboard gear. Line Outs from that gear are going into Analog Inputs 1-8. They need to be matched accordingly in order to use them as hardware inserts.

Finally the TC I'll just use the SPDIF cable? I'll probably be using plugins more often but I think it'll be nice to have in the rack.

Right, so the TC is just another outboard box/hardware insert. You can use analog or digital however you want. Not sure why your diagram only shows S/PDIF going out of the TC, you need it both ways for an insert. And your choice on how to clock all this, but you might want to run wordclock to the TC, but you can also just clock off the input digital (I'd never clock from the TC if it's only used occasionally).

Again I'm not sure why you have had problems with digital connections to the TC in the past. Just sit down with that by itself and a 192 IO, using the signal generator plugin makes things easy. and go through careful troubleshooting. Is a S/PDIF signal getting to the TC box at all? Does a signal get out the TC digital output etc... a headphone DAC/amp can be handy for troubleshooting if needed. Is that digital IO enabled in the 192 IO, sample rates correct, etc.

Edit:

As with any insert the most basic thing is to make sure a physical wire inset works, and stops working when you unplug the wire. And when testing the TC just start by getting a full dry signal to work.

And with S/PDIF or AES/EBU... make sure you are setup properly using mono or stereo depending on what you want to do. S/PDIF or AES/EBU give you stereo if you want to use it, what happens is dependent on setup in Pro Tools and your TC.

[cptsparrow]

Thank you Darryl, that's great advice for troubleshooting.

[albee1952]

2 things that may help:
#1-check the settings on the M4000 as you may need to select the SPDIF IO before it will work(I remember that when trying to use an M-ONE many moons ago)
#2-there are a bunch of settings to be done to the 192's under the Hardware Setup menu(in PT) and they can be very confusing(and every time you trash prefs, your settings will default to factory). Plan on a solid afternoon to get things correct and working, and once you get it all working, save screen captures of each window, in case you ever need to restore those settings.

[cptsparrow]

Thanks so much Dave. I'm in on Thursday and I will try all these things and report back! It may be something as simple as #1.