Really ?

[Pedro Garcia BR]

Originally Posted by Tweakhead

I suspect that nobody at Avid even understands a lot of the embedded legacy code that has been carried forward over the decades. That's why we see the same old unfixed bugs every release. Even if a bug does get fixed, there are ten more to take its place with the next release. CS releases are dead, and a thing of the past. There is no such thing as customer service anymore. Instead we get fobbed off with the inclusion of a new virtual instrument that is outdated, doesn't work properly, and will stop working if you don't keep up the annual payments.

A true re-write is impossible now, so stop dreaming. The previous statements about Rosetta being enough is all you need to know. All they can do now is milk the same old customers for as long as possible until they sell the intellectual property off to another developer - and make it somebody else's problem.

The solution is simple for the customers. Stop paying period. Treat your current working perpetual license like a piece of audio equipment. Go with some other modern software solution for any of those additional tasks which Pro Tools simply cannot carry out.

This entire subscription trend will be dead in a few years anyway. The backlash has already started, and I'm not just talking Avid. It's across the board. Read. Customers will vote with their money, and the accountants will look at the numbers - and they'll change their "business model" accordingly. The problem is that by then, Avid will not have any real customer base anymore.

Stop being a fish gobbling at crumbs thrown by the fisherman.

unfortunately it looks like you nailed it.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Pedro Garcia BR

"If you're not happy move off..."

Rosetta takes too long and often crashes. so move off WTF!!

Pro Tools running under Rosetta 2 does *NOT* crash/beachball for almost all users, where it does you need to troubleshoot. If it was happening much folks would be on here screaming about it in large groups. DUC is a pretty good sensor for problems in Pro Tools releases. I suspect you have tried troubleshooting (I can see you've mentioned in other posts using no plugins, but that immediately raises the next question of exactly what you mean by that) but probably not gotten the help here you should have. And if that troubleshooting leaves good suspicion it's a Pro Tools bug then folks on here are pretty good about helping make sure it's followed up on. But you just can't handwave without explanation that you know a problem is caused by Rosetta, nobody is going to take that seriously.

There is a massive transition underway of a whole complex ecosystem you chose to be a part of that when you moved to Apple Silicon. A move that many of the rest of us also did hopefully with care and testing, and probably some luck, and for almost all of us this has been working well, but sure folks are turning up real bugs and Avid is working through fixing them them (I recently returned a client's apple silicon MBP and will buy another Apple Silicon Mac).

Just blaming Rosetta is not going to help you. I see you've made a few posts about beach balls on other threads. And maybe the DUC community has let you down here, but maybe also a language issue. You have posted comments on other threads and the seem informational like "hey it's also crashing for me". That is unlikely to get you help here. If you want help here to try to solve those problems you should start a new thread. Provide the info about your system and the troubleshooting you have tried and make it clear you are asking for help. Almost all folks here are fellow users not Avid employees, and many of us will complain bitterly about Avid at times.

[Carl Lie]

Originally Posted by Tweakhead

I suspect that nobody at Avid even understands a lot of the embedded legacy code that has been carried forward over the decades. That's why we see the same old unfixed bugs every release. Even if a bug does get fixed, there are ten more to take its place with the next release. CS releases are dead, and a thing of the past. There is no such thing as customer service anymore. Instead we get fobbed off with the inclusion of a new virtual instrument that is outdated, doesn't work properly, and will stop working if you don't keep up the annual payments.

A true re-write is impossible now, so stop dreaming. The previous statements about Rosetta being enough is all you need to know. All they can do now is milk the same old customers for as long as possible until they sell the intellectual property off to another developer - and make it somebody else's problem.

The solution is simple for the customers. Stop paying period. Treat your current working perpetual license like a piece of audio equipment. Go with some other modern software solution for any of those additional tasks which Pro Tools simply cannot carry out.

This entire subscription trend will be dead in a few years anyway. The backlash has already started, and I'm not just talking Avid. It's across the board. Read. Customers will vote with their money, and the accountants will look at the numbers - and they'll change their "business model" accordingly. The problem is that by then, Avid will not have any real customer base anymore.

Stop being a fish gobbling at crumbs thrown by the fisherman.

Speaking of staying where one is, if one decides to "fix" their system at a point in time and drop the perpetual license, is one still able to get support if needed? I'm using HDX with Ultimate.

C

[Pedro Garcia BR]

Darryl...
what pisses me off is that we are paying expensive for updates that does not come. It works on my m1 mac? it works, kind of slow and a bit buggy, sometimes. some days I get the old cpu error buffer size...

My plugins are all legits and always updated.

If I had an intel system I'd be very happy. yes...

If you compare any other DAWs that have apple silicon native vs the same on rosetta, you will see twice the performance. If beta pro tools M1 does not deliver that its not well done.

and the ukraine excuses... before war was the same... pro tools always on the last position.

[deanrichard]

I was under the impression that when PT went 64-bit (PT12?) there was a complete rewrite by an outsourcing group overseas. I seem to remember that being made public at that time, but my memory could be wrong. If that's true, none of the "decades old" code is still being used - though it's possible some legacy bits made it into the rewritten code. That doesn't make your comment invalid - because the codebase has been moved to a couple of different overseas project teams since then. If the code was rewritten for PT12 the current code would be less than 10 years old, but regardless the original outsourcing engineers would be long gone. And if the code has been relocated twice, the second project team is long gone as well.

Originally Posted by Tweakhead

I suspect that nobody at Avid even understands a lot of the embedded legacy code that has been carried forward over the decades.
...

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by deanrichard

I was under the impression that when PT went 64-bit (PT12?) there was a complete rewrite by an outsourcing group overseas. I seem to remember that being made public at that time, but my memory could be wrong. If that's true, none of the "decades old" code is still being used - though it's possible some legacy bits made it into the rewritten code. That doesn't make your comment invalid - because the codebase has been moved to a couple of different overseas project teams since then. If the code was rewritten for PT12 the current code would be less than 10 years old, but regardless the original outsourcing engineers would be long gone. And if the code has been relocated twice, the second project team is long gone as well.

Pro Tools was not completely rewritten in going 64-bit. That claim is silly given large parts of new code were introduced in Pro Tools 10 to add AAX support. [damn it I originally mis-wrote AAE.. it was AAX introduced in PT 10, AAE in PT11. I fix multiple typos here][edit: I don't mean folks are silly to repeat what others seem to have said, but if Avid ever said this...]

You would not completely rewrite all that AAX in 32-bits to go AAX in 64-bits. And it's a silly claim given lots and lots of other code would also not need to be rewritten, instead it would be maybe tweaked to run 64-bit. I can't recall if anybody from Avid actually made this claim or if it's now folklaw--and I've also heard it said elsewhere. The claims from Avid I remember for Pro Tools 11 were more around "new 64 bit architecture", and that's clearly valid. And for Pro Tools 10 I think there were claims around complete rewrite/addition for new AAX support.. also likely valid... is it possible that both those claims got conflated?

[noiseboyuk]

General mildly depressed comment - the new era of Chris being active on the forums was awfully short-lived. Zero follow up from any of the questions he asked, and got polite but firms answers to.

So much of the Pro Tools customer malaise comes down to almost non-existent communication with the customers. It still boggles my mind that the EuCon section has Eddie, Media Composer has Marianna, and Pro Tools has had nothing for a decade or more (with a noble mention of Jeffro who so brilliantly handles account issues).

And so it continues.

[Akiz]

Originally Posted by noiseboyuk

....Pro Tools has had nothing for a decade or more.....

Well, there was JFreak, he was the Avid's "strawman" to manage the various $hi+ storms they've created with their business practices. I guess now, there is no-one left to deal with the angry users, since no-one wants to get the heat, fair enough.

Avid want users to pay upfront, deliver whatever/whenever they want, without questions asked and be happy about it. That is their business model...
As Tweakhead mentioned in an earlier post, stop paying them, this is the only way to make them hurt.

There are other options out there but people don't want to commit learning something better, they stick on what they know even if it is crap and prefer to complain to the company. They got your cash upfront, whine as much as you want baby, they don't care...

Cheers!

[Chevron]

Originally Posted by Tweakhead

I suspect that nobody at Avid even understands a lot of the embedded legacy code that has been carried forward over the decades. That's why we see the same old unfixed bugs every release. Even if a bug does get fixed, there are ten more to take its place with the next release. CS releases are dead, and a thing of the past. There is no such thing as customer service anymore. Instead we get fobbed off with the inclusion of a new virtual instrument that is outdated, doesn't work properly, and will stop working if you don't keep up the annual payments.

A true re-write is impossible now, so stop dreaming. The previous statements about Rosetta being enough is all you need to know. All they can do now is milk the same old customers for as long as possible until they sell the intellectual property off to another developer - and make it somebody else's problem.

The solution is simple for the customers. Stop paying period. Treat your current working perpetual license like a piece of audio equipment. Go with some other modern software solution for any of those additional tasks which Pro Tools simply cannot carry out.

This entire subscription trend will be dead in a few years anyway. The backlash has already started, and I'm not just talking Avid. It's across the board. Read. Customers will vote with their money, and the accountants will look at the numbers - and they'll change their "business model" accordingly. The problem is that by then, Avid will not have any real customer base anymore.

Stop being a fish gobbling at crumbs thrown by the fisherman.

Just for my own interest, what are a couple of big bugs that cause issues.

I'd like to know to check them out on my system.

[smurfyou]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Pro Tools was not completely rewritten in going 64-bit. That claim is silly given large parts of new code were introduced in Pro Tools 10 to add AAE support. [edit: I don't mean folks are silly to repeat what others seem to have said, but if Avid ever said this...]

You would not completely rewrite all that AAE in 32-bits to go AAE in 64-bits. And it's a silly claim given lots and lots of other code would also not need to be rewritten, instead it would be maybe tweaked to run 64-bit. I can't recall if anybody from Avid actually made this claim or if it's now folklaw--and I've also heard it said elsewhere. The claims from Avid I remember for Pro Tools 11 were more around "new 64 bit architecture", and that's clearly valid. And for Pro Tools 10 I think there were claims around an complete rewrite for AAE support.. also likely valid... is it possible that both those claims got conflated?

I can't say for sure what the exact wording was but they definitely inferred heavily that PT was going through a rewrite (for v11 I believe). People repeat it because Avid led them to believe it.

Obviously that didn't happen because it would be monumental and we'd have all new bugs instead of the same old ones.

If anyone needs proof the logs still refer to DAE. Nuff said.