Advice needed on live recording

[snoopy]

I have been asked to do some recording of a few live shows. My first plan is to buy 3 18.2G 10,000rpm drives to store the audio on. I have never delt with sessions of this size before (Several hours) and am wondering if anyone has such experience? I imagine that once the recording is finished I will want to work on the tracks song by song. Can I divide a 3 hour session ino may smaller ones easily? and when finished mixing each one, is it difficult to edit the mixes all back together to make a continuous show? Of course I'm sure this is all easily possible, but tips on the best way to do it (w/o learning the hard way during the process) would be much appreciated.

PS: Any advice on backing up such large sessions would help.

Thanks!

[KingTor]

are you talking about recording the live performances directly to ProTools? if it were me, I'd be very, very nervous recording things in that big of a chunk. maybe I'm trapped in the past, but I'd be inclined to record the stuff to da88 or some such and transfer it to disk later. (or at the very least, be recording to tape as a backup of the computer.) that way you've got a backup of the recordings and you can transfer one song at a time into individual sessions that could probably be burned to cdrom as a backup. just transfer the songs with overlapping audio from the previous and next songs, and you should be able to make an edit (maybe even in MasterList or Jam) that sounds good after mixing.

[Jules]

Chums of mine recorded some stuff sucsessfully to PT at Ronnnie Scotts , London's premier Jazz club.
It sounded fantastic!
One live saftey tip, is to record a double of the lead vocal 6 db DOWN in case they start screaming and you get overload, I always thought that was a cool trick....
Jules

[snoopy]

I agree that modular multitrack recorder would be much nicer in a live situation, but not a feasible option at this time. One option would be to set up many sessions before hand and load them up between each song. I guess the big questions is; Is there an easy (or standard) way of dividing a multitrack session into smaller sessions (hopfully without having to export each track or bounce sections of individual tracks.

PS: I had meant to post this in the tips section instead of troubleshooting. My bad.

[Oli P]

I would recommend to stop the recording between the songs...if it is possible. Otherwise you'll get very long audio files...not sure if that is a problem, but I would feel better if there was a set of audio files for each song.

Once you are done recording....the way to get the songs to be seperated projects is to use the "save session copy" function...and include the audio files. This should be done after you load the entire session up, and delete the portions outside the song you are about to save. The saved copy should be stored on a different HD than the original.
Then don't save your edited original session....just quit, and open the new session copy. I would prefer to turn the HD with the original recordings off!!
Then in the copy you select all, and choose the "compact selected" in the audio menu.
This will discard all the recorded audio outside the region you selected before you saved a session copy.

Then repeat this procedure for each song. But remember to do the compacting in your session copy before making a new copy each time, or you'r HD will be full in no time.
This will take a long time, because it will copy your entire audio every time.

I don't know any faster way to do this....so if somebody knows one...PLEASE post it here!

I'll second the tip Jules gave re safety track -6db.

The best way to do this, is to make a template, and save each song as an individual session. It is pretty fast to open the template, and all you have to do is arm all tracks and hit record.
At least you shouldn't make each session contain more than 3 or 4 songs, or it will really be a pain to sort it out later.

To edit the final mixes back into a sequence is very easy....just import the mixes back into a new session, and line them up as you like.

Good luck

[This message has been edited by Oli P (edited June 05, 2000).]

[Grillo]

It´s very risky to record live shows into a computer, computers have too much problems, i recomend a ups for your sistem and a back up sistem. i don´t tink the size of the audio files will give you problems, but if you use too much tracs ata time alocated to the same disk you migth have problems with disk space and speed of the disk, it migth "complain".
to separate songs in diferent sessions what you can do is,
select the songs you dont want in that session and clear it from secion, seve it as another one and close,
return to the original sesion and do the same to the rest
ATENTION IN THE SESSIONS OF SONGS DONT CLEAR TO GET SPACE OR YOU WILL LOSE ALL OF THE OTHER AUDIO FILES, SINCE THE ORIGINAL AUDIO FILES ARE THERE BUT YOU HAVE JUST CUT IT.
when you have single songs per session if you have space in the hd you can make a "save copy to" so you create single audio files per song(session), this will create a copy of the files in use by the session.
in the end, do do a continuous show you can import the bounce of each music to a new session of PT and do the edit.
i hope this help you and good luck.
PS:tell me how it worked.

[uno1234]

I was the first on my block to get a Tascam MX-2424 recorder to do 24 track live mobile recording, then take the SDII files off the MX drive and import them into ProTools. You spot them to their original time stamp and they all line up. Very sleek.

The unit is easy to use, but not quite as fun as ProTools. You can sport along a powerbook and ethernet it to the MX, and control the whole machine from a nice graphic interface.

Let me know if you have any other questions. It ran me about $6000 with the cables, analog I/O card and extra drive, but it's worth it if you get good money for the live shows...

[BDWillis]

I agree with Oli P — IF you proceed with the direct-to-PT thing, stop between songs, if only for a brief moment, to allow PT to create separate files for each song. I don't see how you'd have enough time to close one session & open the next between songs. You can always paste/crossfade some audience overlap to make it appear seamless for the final mix.

Having said that… a few months ago I did a live remote, approx 2.25 hrs. with no breaks (comedy, not music). I absolutly love PT and work on my system virtually every day, but because it was ONE SHOW ONLY and was for a major label, we opted to go direct to RADAR II (24 bits), as that system has quite a few less variables, and then did digital transfers to ProTools via Otari UFC for editing and mix. For the remote date, we also ran a digital out of the RADAR II into DA-88 as a 16-bit backup, plus a rough mix to DAT for a last-ditch backup. It was logistically involved to set up, but two "punt plans" made for much less stress during the show. Good luck.

Warmest Regards,
Brian

[milestrap]

snoopy.....don't be afraid.. it wont bite. Does your system work fine in your studio? If not fix these problems or they will seem 10 times worse when it's 5 min. to show time... Yes use an APS and a power conditioner. (furman-equitec ).. for 24 tracks use 2 HD's etc. .Split the tracks to both HD's and it will work fine I've been doing it for years. In fact I'm back in my Studio mixing a live album I recorded a week ago.. 20 tracks 24bit. Not a single problem.. The recording went very smooth.. except for the annoying buzzzzzz from front of house I captured from the vocal split.. One more thing use all your own mikes, cables, and stands.. Have fun.. Any other questions E-mail me directly. [email protected]

500 years experience, road...studio...other.

[snoopy]

Thanks Strap. How are you managing all the songs during the mix down though? Are you using the techniques suggested above such as using the "Save session copy" to a new disk and compacting all but the currently selected song? I have 80mb/sec throughput so I am not too worried about the actual recording, more so just the data management after the recording. Tonight should actually only be about 15 tracks including room mics (though not all acts will be that small, but I only have 16 inputs anyways).

BTW Thanks everyone for the advice so far. I will post tonights results