Finally acoustic treating my room. I have a few Q's

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by fenderrocker

Certainly. Although, 2" x 4 = 8", making the absorbance of a 2" 703 panel 1.695+ kHz.

Nonetheless, great explanation. Bass is most definitely the biggest issue I have when I move my music to another system, so I probably will want to go with the IIG Minwool 1200. Either that, or I'll find a way to make membrane traps with the 2" 703 boards.

My plan for the panels is to put them in a 2" x 4" frame, so there will be a gap of 2" between the panel and the wall, meaning it will absorb frequencies down to 848 Hz, as you said. But this isn't even in the bass range, so I will need bass traps.

What will be the best solution for a room this size? Keep in mind I'm moving my dresser into my closet, and putting my workstation where the dresser is currently. I will probably also center my bed on the back wall.

1.) Should I go for the IIG Minwool 1200 and make thicker panels? I think they come in 4" panels, and they have a density of 8 lbs./sq. ft.

2.) Or, should I make a few mid range absorbers and a few membrane bass traps for the back corners?

Well, I'd have to look at the specs for the Minwool 1200. Do they have NRC ratings listed?

I know the guy at RPG told you to put the dresser in the closet. That's cool, but looking at your room I don't think it'll make that much difference. You can try it if you want. But so long as it isn't directly beside you when you are sitting at the workstation it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Honestly, no matter where you move the workstation it will be tough to place the panels on either side of you. Normally they end up on the wall about 1/2 between where your speakers are and where you are.

So with the current setup that is over the closet. If you move your daw to where your dresser is...then your panel is going to be straddling the door to get in and out. If you move it on the wall where the nightstand is it'll be straddling the door to the bathroom and if you move it to the wall that your bed is up against, it'll be straddling the window.

So there really is no ideal setup.

And because of that, I would suggest going with functionality first. Since you have so many doors and windows and stuff, you are probably better off putting the bass traps up between the ceiling and the walls. Kind of like this panel on the left above the keyboard is situated.

http://www.realtraps.com/mini1.jpg

That way you aren't closing off any doors or windows with them.

as for where to put the panels and daw, you have to decide which wall you want your daw on and which door you want try and put the panels across. For me, I'd say leave it where it is and try to mount it on the closet door somehow. Or maybe cut the 2' piece down the middle and have two 1' wide panels, one on the door, and one on the wall next to the door. You'll have to see where the reflection point is before deciding what to do.

Also, if you are going to center your bed on the opposite wall as the workstation AND you want to put diffusors up.... seriously think twice. The diffusors at that point will be on the wall right above your bed. And they are heavy since they are all wood... if you have a girlfriend and you guys start bumping the bed against the wall, the diffusors could come right down on top of you... which is painful and will probably kill the mood. ;-)

If you are going to keep your bed where it is, then it probably isn't going to be a problem.

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by fenderrocker

While tempting, I don't think I can squeeze the cash. I don't even think I'll have enough money to buy the RoKit 5's after I sound treat my room. That's why I have to sell my pedalboard!

Well, you have some serious things to consider. Honestly, how crazy should you really go with acoustic treatment in a space like this? Like I said, it's never going to be ideal anyway.

I suggest starting with the minimum possible and adding to it over time. In the end you have to look at the purpose of the room and see if the income you are going to get justifies the money spent.

Also things to consider... if you get a record deal... the label will pay to have someone else remix it anyway... if you are writing for film, the music gets mixed by the re-recording mixers anyway...

If you are doing local bands... the room just has to be good enough to edit in. And you can try to get them to pony up the money for a studio to mix in. and so on and so forth...

Acoustic treatment is very important and it is something that you'll never "outgrow" or become "obsolete" in future years. so it's good to have it and as you move into bigger spaces you can take it with you. But at the same time, you don't want to drop $2000 or $3000 in sound treatment yet if it's not going to bring in a return on your investment yet. Know what I mean? your room is basically 132 sq ft with 8' ceilings. Most studio control rooms are at least 300 or 400 sq ft with 10' ceilings and ideally you'd want something around 800+sq ft with 10' ceilings. Just keep that in mind.

[fenderrocker]

Originally Posted by O.G. Killa

Oh no! It took me like an hour to write that post. I kept doing a couple minutes then working on other stuff then coming back again. Sorry for the mess up. I don't know how I came up with 6"!?!?! it's been one of those days!

I'm incredibly grateful for the effort. Here's a quick drawing of where I plan on placing the panels/diffusers: http://imgur.com/pfyjA.jpg

Any thoughts guys?

[fenderrocker]

Originally Posted by O.G. Killa

Well, you have some serious things to consider. Honestly, how crazy should you really go with acoustic treatment in a space like this? Like I said, it's never going to be ideal anyway.

I suggest starting with the minimum possible and adding to it over time. In the end you have to look at the purpose of the room and see if the income you are going to get justifies the money spent.

Also things to consider... if you get a record deal... the label will pay to have someone else remix it anyway... if you are writing for film, the music gets mixed by the re-recording mixers anyway...

If you are doing local bands... the room just has to be good enough to edit in. And you can try to get them to pony up the money for a studio to mix in. and so on and so forth...

Acoustic treatment is very important and it is something that you'll never "outgrow" or become "obsolete" in future years. so it's good to have it and as you move into bigger spaces you can take it with you. But at the same time, you don't want to drop $2000 or $3000 in sound treatment yet if it's not going to bring in a return on your investment yet. Know what I mean? your room is basically 132 sq ft with 8' ceilings. Most studio control rooms are at least 300 or 400 sq ft with 10' ceilings and ideally you'd want something around 800+sq ft with 10' ceilings. Just keep that in mind.

Yeah, I understand the room is far from ideal. I'm really not sure what I want out of the room, aside from great tracks lol.

But really, I'm just trying to tame the room so it's actually worth buying better monitors. And when I do get better monitors, I want my mixes to sounds the same way on other systems as in my studio. I'm not sure which I should get first, but treating my room now seems like a smart move.

[fenderrocker]

Originally Posted by O.G. Killa

Well, I'd have to look at the specs for the Minwool 1200. Do they have NRC ratings listed?

http://www.hamiltongv.com/DataSheets...0_IndBoard.pdf

They're very good.

Honestly, no matter where you move the workstation it will be tough to place the panels on either side of you. Normally they end up on the wall about 1/2 between where your speakers are and where you are.

So with the current setup that is over the closet. If you move your daw to where your dresser is...then your panel is going to be straddling the door to get in and out. If you move it on the wall where the nightstand is it'll be straddling the door to the bathroom and if you move it to the wall that your bed is up against, it'll be straddling the window.

I can actually put a 2' x 4' panel on the door into the room with no problem. The closet door is a folding-slider door so I can't put one on there, unless I cut it in half.

Not sure how I'll manage to do this http://www.realtraps.com/mini1.jpg, but it would definitely look sweet and allow me to put some nice painting and posters on my walls

Also, if you are going to center your bed on the opposite wall as the workstation AND you want to put diffusors up.... seriously think twice. The diffusors at that point will be on the wall right above your bed. And they are heavy since they are all wood... if you have a girlfriend and you guys start bumping the bed against the wall, the diffusors could come right down on top of you... which is painful and will probably kill the mood. ;-)

If you are going to keep your bed where it is, then it probably isn't going to be a problem.

LOL I'll use a stud detector on my wall for sure, but valid point. I'll be careful.

[albee1952]

From your drawing, you might also realize an improvement by moving your mix position back off the front wall. The "ideal" chair position is 38% back from the front wall(if you can make that work for your setup).

[mhelm01]

Originally Posted by fenderrocker

Not sure how I'll manage to do this http://www.realtraps.com/mini1.jpg, but it would definitely look sweet and allow me to put some nice painting and posters on my walls

The Emmy statues would be nice too!

[fenderrocker]

http://imgur.com/pfyjA.jpg

So I just found out the pricing on the IIG Minwool 4" thick panels...

$24.26 for a pack of three 2' x 4' panels!! Cheaper than the OC 703!

So I'm thinking about getting four packs (12 panels) and going from there. I know this room isn't ideal, but will it be worth putting these up in a configuration similar to what I've drawn out? And will my vocal isolation corner in the closet be effective?

My estimated cost of this project is roughly $200 + w/e the cost of the diffusers are. Is this worth it?

EDIT: So I'm thinking about following these plans for the diffuser: http://www.pmerecords.com/Diffusor.cfm

Is there anything I should know about diffusion (specifically when it comes to room modes) before I begin building one of these? I know that in a room my size, absorption is the number one priority, but the rear wall is nearly 8 ft. (2.44 m) behind the sweet spot of the room, so I think a diffuser will really help get the room under control. I'm also considering using a less dense type of wood. Will this make the diffuser significantly less effective?

I know I'm laying down a barrage of questions here, but I really want to do this right, and I'm on a college student budget, so it's not like I can hire an acoustician for the job! I appreciate all the help so far guys. I can always count on you DUC'ers

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by fenderrocker

http://imgur.com/pfyjA.jpg

So I just found out the pricing on the IIG Minwool 4" thick panels...

$24.26 for a pack of three 2' x 4' panels!! Cheaper than the OC 703!

So I'm thinking about getting four packs (12 panels) and going from there. I know this room isn't ideal, but will it be worth putting these up in a configuration similar to what I've drawn out? And will my vocal isolation corner in the closet be effective?

My estimated cost of this project is roughly $200 + w/e the cost of the diffusers are. Is this worth it?

EDIT: So I'm thinking about following these plans for the diffuser: http://www.pmerecords.com/Diffusor.cfm

Is there anything I should know about diffusion (specifically when it comes to room modes) before I begin building one of these? I know that in a room my size, absorption is the number one priority, but the rear wall is nearly 8 ft. (2.44 m) behind the sweet spot of the room, so I think a diffuser will really help get the room under control. I'm also considering using a less dense type of wood. Will this make the diffuser significantly less effective?

I know I'm laying down a barrage of questions here, but I really want to do this right, and I'm on a college student budget, so it's not like I can hire an acoustician for the job! I appreciate all the help so far guys. I can always count on you DUC'ers

Which model of the 1200 Minwool were you thinking of getting? The specs on the 1280 are really good! all of them look pretty good, but the 1280 definitely looks the best.

The description of the diffusor looks good. It should do the trick for you. I forget the way to calculate how far from it you should be, but from what I remember it's something like a foot away for every inch deep the diffusor is. If it is 7 inches deep, then you should try to be at least 7' away if my memory serves me correctly. so long as you can do that it'll work well.

The two things I would recommend from looking at your drawing...

Move the panels on the ceiling foward. They are supposed to be on the ceiling between you and your speakers, just like the panels on the side walls are.

you might want to try putting all three diffusors together at the back of the room instead of putting panels in between. Just a suggestion, try it both ways if you can and see if you like one way better than another. The reason being, the area on the back wall from which the speakers reflect off is pretty large... putting the diffusors together to make one big diffusor might (or might not) balance out the mix position a little more. It might not make that big of a difference. But if you have a way to stand them on something and experiment with placement before you attach them to the wall, I would recommend it.

Also, I would try to make the lower right corner of the room (in your latest drawing) the mic area where you will record vocals.

The closet will be so small that the resonant frequencies will be up in the midrange and give the voice a boxy sound. Having the vocalist out in the room will help keep the resonant frequencies lower.

If you really want it in the closet, buy some more minwool and try ot put up 4" panels on as much of the wall surface as possible. Maybe even suspend the 4" panels off the wall by another 2" or so. The toughest part about the vocal booth is controlling 200~600Hz. So try to tune (using distance from wall) a couple of the panels so they can absorb down to 200 or 300 Hz. This is where a corner frictional absorber might come in handy... having it 2ft out from the corner would give you some absorption down to around 150Hz or so... So you might want to have a panel across the corner behind the singer (from floor to ceiling) that is 2ft out from the corner. Or maybe put one in both corners if you have room.

Out in the room... if you can make membrane absorbers (usually you use 1/2" plywood and minwool but you have to seal it air tight, and leave an air gap inside between the minwool and plywood) for bass traps I would put a few of those (maybe 4 to 6) around the room. Since you can put them flat up against the wall and still get great bass absorption you can put them on the ceiling in the corner, or up against the walls in the middle of a wall or in a corner. Or if you can hang them across the corner if you want.

[fenderrocker]

Originally Posted by O.G. Killa

Which model of the 1200 Minwool were you thinking of getting? The specs on the 1280 are really good! all of them look pretty good, but the 1280 definitely looks the best.

I'm getting the 1280! The lady told me it is 8 lbs./ft.^3!

The description of the diffusor looks good. It should do the trick for you. I forget the way to calculate how far from it you should be, but from what I remember it's something like a foot away for every inch deep the diffusor is. If it is 7 inches deep, then you should try to be at least 7' away if my memory serves me correctly. so long as you can do that it'll work well.

Can anyone verify this?

Move the panels on the ceiling foward. They are supposed to be on the ceiling between you and your speakers, just like the panels on the side walls are.

Yeah, I figured they would go at the first reflection point on the ceiling. Do you recommend angling them downward, toward the speakers (perhaps about a 10˚ inclination from the wall) or should i put them flat? I was planning on using hooks and twine/rope, so angling them shouldn't be too hard.

you might want to try putting all three diffusors together at the back of the room instead of putting panels in between. Just a suggestion, try it both ways if you can and see if you like one way better than another. The reason being, the area on the back wall from which the speakers reflect off is pretty large... putting the diffusors together to make one big diffusor might (or might not) balance out the mix position a little more. It might not make that big of a difference. But if you have a way to stand them on something and experiment with placement before you attach them to the wall, I would recommend it.

If that's a better solution then I'll probably just make one diffuser panel, just make it wider. Can I make this out of a lightweight wood, or should I just chop up some 2x4s?

Also, I would try to make the lower right corner of the room (in your latest drawing) the mic area where you will record vocals.

Yeah I had a feeling the closet wouldn't be a good idea without extreme treatment. The problem is, I have stuff in there and shelves built into the walls, so I can't do much. I think having the mic in the corner will look nicer, too.

Out in the room... if you can make membrane absorbers (usually you use 1/2" plywood and minwool but you have to seal it air tight, and leave an air gap inside between the minwool and plywood) for bass traps I would put a few of those (maybe 4 to 6) around the room. Since you can put them flat up against the wall and still get great bass absorption you can put them on the ceiling in the corner, or up against the walls in the middle of a wall or in a corner. Or if you can hang them across the corner if you want.

Here are my plans for the panels. I plan on buying 9 boards (they come in packs of 3), but I might get 12 just in case. How many panels and how many membrane absorbers should I build? And where in the room should I place them?
http://i.imgur.com/tsL3R.jpg
(the green panels on the right wall are labeled 4 and 5. idk why my scanner cut it off)