RANT: Previews at movies too loud!

[John Link]

Last night I saw the movie "The Missing" and enjoyed it tremendously. However, the volume of the previews (15 minutes worth) was too damn loud. The previews are loaded with the most violent sounds someone can find, and then the volume is cranked up on top of that. The volume for "The Missing" was just fine, so I know that the volume of the previews (every single one of them) was intentionally made too loud. When I complained to the manager afterwards he told me that this is an ongoing problem and that the association of theater owners (or something like that) has had repeated talks about this with the movie distributors (or makers?) and had been frustrated in their attempts to get the volume of the previews reduced.

So, are any of you responsible for the sound on the previews? If so, please turn down the volume! Do you think that assaulting your potential audience with excess decibels will get people to buy tickets?You better think again!

John Link

[WeNdeL]

and while we're at it...

Commercials are next...

[dr sound]

John,
Trailers are made under strict guideline on the maximum level possoble. There is a Dolby box
(The LEQ ) that one must use when making Theatricle Trailers. This was created because of the many complaints made by viewers. The problem is if the theater turns down the trailers in level, chances are that they will forget to turn up the Feature. Now all that hard work of weeks of mixing the Movie goes down the drain because some bonehead has to make his trailer louder than hell!! See this link for more info
http://www.cinemaaudiosociety.org/ph...topic.php?t=90

[John Link]

and while we're at it...

Commercials are next...

I can understand that two possible ways:

1) Commercials on TV are too loud.

2) Commercials in movie theaters are objectionable unless they are for other movies (i.e. previews).

John Link

[John Link]

John,
Trailers are made under strict guideline on the maximum level possoble.

It seems that most trailers are made so that the level never gets very far from the maximum possible level. The average level is therefore way too high.

There is a Dolby box
(The LEQ ) that one must use when making Theatricle Trailers. This was created because of the many complaints made by viewers. The problem is if the theater turns down the trailers in level, chances are that they will forget to turn up the Feature.

The manager with whom I spoke last night said they have one guy to run all ten theaters in the complex, so I can see how that could easily happen.

Now all that hard work of weeks of mixing the Movie goes down the drain because some bonehead has to make his trailer louder than hell!!

It seems to me that _most trailers have their levels set by boneheads.


John Link

[froyo]

Hello. Well I agree that trailers for the most part are louder than features but that's almost common sense. I say almost because maybe one doesn't think about it right off the bat. In a feature the director and the mixer have 90+ minutes to tell a story, visually and aurally. In a trailer you have to get there in between 2 to 5 minutes. So you better get people's attention. Somewhere along the way this became 'turn it up louder'. Same principle for TV commercials. 30 seconds to sell the product. Ready, set, go! You come off a nice fade out from the TV show, with ambience, canned laughter and music, and BAM! you have to sell anything in 30 seconds, better get your attention. Again this has meant louder for some reason the more time goes on. I know I and others fight this battle to keep levels down every day of the week. Some day we hope to win the war, but for now we keep battling.

As for TV commercials in theaters let's not even go there. When did this sh#$ start?! I don't like it, I suppose a lot other people don't.

Any medium where the mixer hands off a product for someone else to control is subject to these risks. Believe me I don't want my commercials, trailers, TV shows, music, films, etc to be bleedingly loud. But the client sits back there in the producer's table and says he needs it louder. I have come to the point of almost dropping sessions and clients sometimes. Maybe one of these days I will, but they are the client and they are paying. It is up to me to educate them on the subject and to keep fighting the battle. It's a well known fact today's mastered CD's come up as brick wall waveforms when imported into a DAW. Ask the mastering engineers and they'll tell you. You know this probably from personal experience.

Here is a good read from the Dolby web page. It's 28 pages but well worth it. Also note that it is from 1997. Here is a pertinent passage

But here are some obvious symptoms of the situation we are in:

1. There is a growing number of audience complaints about movies being too loud. Newspaper articles are being written on the subject. Even well-respected mixers are going to press discussing the problem.

2. Theatres are playing films way below the calibrated level. A fader setting of “5” as opposed to calibrated “7” is not uncommon, representing a level reduction of 6 dB.

3. Trailers are fighting for competitive loudness. Theatre playback levels are set by the complaints generated by the loudest element of the show. If the playback level is set to accommodate the loudest trailer, the feature will play at the same reduced level dialogue will be lowered by the same level deemed necessary for the trailer. A feature film played 6 dB low may well have serious dialogue intelligibility problems.

4. Mixers are using hearing attenuator pads to avoid the risk of hearing damage.

5. In Europe, where commercials are played before the feature, competitive loudness has led to the desire of a uniform measurement technique, and a self-disciplined constraint.

Here is that article

Dobly as they say in Spinal Tap

P.S. For the record, I brought up this exact point in a workshop on Sound For Picture at the AES convention in October, pleading for people to educate their clientele and turn the frigging thing down!

[dr sound]

Chae,
Sound is a very subjective medium. I personally feel only a fraction of all movies are too loud. I can see your point, but wearing your ear plugs as your example" even in my car when its raining and the sound of the rain hitting the windshield gets pretty loud". That's going overboard and is very dangerous to all those around you!!!

[froyo]

Hello. Chae the Dolby article refers mostly to features. I only copied the pertinent info there on trailers to stay on topic. And when I brought up the subject at AES I was referring to features. I do agree with the dr. here however as for earplugs. I also carry mine everywhere (Etymotics) but have only had to use them once or twice in theaters (original Matrix, T3 for example). If you do feel that the rain on your car is too loud and you need earplugs, maybe a visit to an ENT is in order. Hyper sensitivity is actually a symptom of hearing loss if I'm not mistaken. And as the dr. pointed, it's very dangerous for you and others on the road. Good luck.

P.S. Marti everytime I see one of your posts I keep thinking you are a villain on Spiderman, Batman, the Fantastic Four or something. What's your super power? Mixing features in two days flat or what?

[dr sound]

Poster: Froyo
Subject: Re: RANT: Previews at movies too loud!

SNIP

P.S. Marti everytime I see one of your posts I keep thinking you are a villain on Spiderman, Batman, the Fantastic Four or something. What's your super power? Mixing features in two days flat or what?

dr.sound replies:
Froyo,
As a fan of you and your postings I must ask, what do you mean "a villain on Spiderman...?
What super power? And what 2-day mixing?
Please elaborate.