Novation SL V Korg Kontrol (dum, dum, dum...)

[whunt]

Ok all you virtual Synth and Midi Guru's,

Whats the deal with these two controllers?

Who's going to win?

Who's got the coolest product?

Cast your vote... and help me pick one...

[Equality 7-2521]

Definitly the SL.

Ive been demoing it for the last couple of weeks and it is indeed the best controller on the market in my opinion. Its the layout that does it. With the big LCD screens and also the automapping feature, it is much better than the Korg (although I havnt tried the korg). its just a shame that Digidesign will never jump on board with Novation's new Automapping technology. dam you Digi.

[relaxo]

Definitly the SL.
it is much better than the Korg (although I havnt tried the korg)

Interesting. Looks to me like the Korgs have a superior pad layout with twice as many pads which are also larger. They both only have 8 infinite rotation knobs. (The Behringer bcr2000 has 32 endless rotary knobs for $125!) Any knobs without endless rotation and all sliders are not appropriate for midi for obvious reasons.

The automapping is great on the Ovation. Digi is refusing to support it? They do have more important midi development issues pending...

[Equality 7-2521]

I agree that the Korg has a better pad layout. There are more of them, they are bigger and they are in a square instead of a row, making it much easier to access all of them when tapping out drum beats. I think that is the only advantage of the Korg though.

Novation have what is generally regarded to be the best semi-weighted action around. Although I havn't tried lots of keyboards I can say that Novations action is nice. The large LCD screen on the SL is also excellent as it displays a whole host of data in a clearly mapped and easy to understand fashion. Another thing is that the SL has a touch pad, which allows the assigning of 4 parameters which can be controlled simltaneously. Fun fun. Not to mention twice as many rotaries, a whole host of buttons and dedicated transport controls.

I guess you get what you pay for. The SL costs more but is worth it in my opinion.

On to the Automap thing. I have spoken to Novation and they say that it is highly unlikely Digi will jump on board with the new technology. It comes as no surprise though. Digi has never been interested in supporting products of other companies. As far as I know, Digi had a falling out with Focusrite. Novation is connected with Focusrite so maybe thats why Digi wont come to the party. It really is a shame. Automap IS the way forward as far as MIDI controllers are concerned. It makes music production so much more streamlined.

It would be such a simple thing for Digi to implement Automap. But then they wouldn't sell as many M-Audio controllers. I can tell you one thing though - it would open up a nice market for them in software users.

I highly doubt Digi has more important MIDI developments pending, at least certainly not in the area of MIDI controllers. Digi are still trying to get the MIDI implementation in the software half decent.

This all inspires me to make a new thread for Digi regarding Automap. I dont expect it would reap much reward for us though.

BTW, I do not see the "obvious reasons" why sliders and non-endless rotaries are useless for MIDI. Please elaborate.

[relaxo]

I highly doubt Digi has more important MIDI developments pending, at least certainly not in the area of MIDI controllers. Digi are still trying to get the MIDI implementation in the software half decent.

That's what I'm saying...I hope Digi focuses on its painful shortcomings in the areas of BASIC MIDI EDITING first, rather than automapping or any other fancy thing.

BTW, I do not see the "obvious reasons" why sliders and non-endless rotaries are useless for MIDI. Please elaborate.

When you have a midi controller, it needs to start in the right place. Unless non-endless rotary knobs and faders are motorized, there is a 127 out of 128 chance that they will be in the wrong position when a new value is assigned to it. Say a knob gets assigned to volume (#7) and the volume value is at 115. What if the knob is at the 10:00 position. It should be in about the 4:00 position for a midi value of 115. Endless rotaries will just pop up at precisely 4:00 and show it with a little LED light or something.

[Equality 7-2521]

Yeah I too would prefer Digi fix basic MIDI editing before an Automap. I just felt that an Automap would be such an easy thing to do, whereas PT MIDI really needs a complete overhaul. As Digi has already said, they are working on PT MIDI but we are only going to see improvements in bits and pieces, not in great chunks. Either way, it seems I am forever waiting for PT to have things that other apps have had for ages.

I see your point regarding the non-edless encoders. The Remote SL has a choice of "jump" or "pick up" mode. With jump mode, the value will jump to wherever the control is when it is moved. With pick up it will not change the value until the control is moved through the current value. I generally prefer pick-up mode as this saves values being lost accidently. It doesnt completely fix the problem of having a control in the wrong position when a new parameter is assigned but the pick up function (I'm not sure if its a common option on MIDI controllers today?) makes it not so bad. In the end id prefer to have sliders than not have them but I concur that non-endless rotary encoders are more flexible.

[whunt]

Thanks for all of the great information. There is so much to consider with the layout of each controller, but when you add on the varying support (or lack thereof) it makes it downright confusing. Can I save controller presets for my Virtual instruments within a protools session or is that just out of the question as far as digi is concerned?

[Equality 7-2521]

no you would save VI presets as "templates" on your controller.

[Equality 7-2521]

This just in...

Currently the only way to control ProTools using the ReMOTE SL is to emulate one of the supported control surfaces. Using the manual MIDI CC templates it is possible to emulate the JL Cooper CS-10. However it may be possible in a future SL update to be able to emulate the Mackie HUI, which
would incorporate feedback from ProTools to the SL, allowing it to operate in a similar way to the Automap with Cubase etc. This is something that we are looking into and hope to implement, but has not yet been confirmed, and may be some time before it is implemented.

- Mick Gilbert - Novation Support

Hmmmmm.

[undergroundcubby]

Though I would relight this as we still have no way of controlling Pro Tools automation unless we all buy a Digi control surface and that sucks!

I have a Kontrol49 and it is near impossible to do anything with it in Pro Tools ( Or am I missing something??)