The "Perfect" Control Surface - which one?

[Eco]

Hi everyone! (sorry for the lenght of this post)

I have noticed here that Im not alone in my desperate situation: I want to lay my hands on the "perfect" control surface to be primary used with Pro Tools Le but also other programs such as Cubase or Reason...

For me the obvious choice seems to stand between the three models I typed in my subject: MCU , MotorMate or Command 8...



Digidesign's "Command 8"
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
By reading around here in this threads you notice quite fast that Digidesigns own Command 8 isnt perfect...it seems to have some bugs here and there but that of course isnt so strange when the majority of the people here use it and therefor gets more criticism...The so called "flip" function seems to be its major "thumb up" along with the "100%" functionallity with Pro Tools of course...

The main problem with the Command 8 for me seems,as many already have stated, to be its compabillity with other DAW's than Pro Tools..Digidesign claims it can be used with other DAW's but no templates has yet come to hand and it seems its going to be this way forever

For me this compabillity problem with other DAW's actually rules this device out of my choice...I MUST HAVE compabillity with other DAW's than Pro Tools.. (I know Im not alone in this statement)



Mackie's "Mackie Control Universal"
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
This Control Surface has one obvious physical difference from Command 8...A Scrub/Shuttle Wheel that in my opinion seems to be a very useful thing. Another "physical" difference is the possibility to expand the controller with more faders (8 at a time) or pots (32 at a time). These expander devices is a very good way to complement the MCU but are indeed expensive.

The best about this controller seems to be its nice compabillity with alot of different DAW's including Pro Tools. Unfortunaly this device hasnt been spoken about so much in the threads here...so I dont know about its compabillity with Pro Tools in detail from users point of view...presumably not as good as the Command 8 but still...its claimed compabillity with alot of other DAW's makes this device a much better choice for me...

I hope somebody out there have this control surface and atleast uses it with Pro Tools to give me and everybody else in my situation some info about how it works with Pro Tools and other programs...any info would mean alot!



CM Labs "MotorMate"
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
This Control Surface seems to be a pretty new one out there (It was shown at the NAMM). That might explain why there practically isnt any info at all about it on the threads here...
Like the MCU, it has a Scrub/Shuttle Wheel and the expensive expanding possibility of faders/pots.

All you out there that hasnt seen this Control Surface...CHECK IT OUT on the link above and post your thoughts about it...it seems to be a very good and worhty opponent to the MCU...

On their website they truly gives the picture of it beeing superior in quality compared to other control surfaces (not mentioned which ones though)...Of course you may take all this quality-talk as business-talk to make us buy their product...but keep in mind that the guy that has built/made this device actually is the true inventor of the whole HUI thing from the start! and on top of that, he has worked for NASA! (look at "company" on their site)

It seems like the MotorMate is very compatible with Pro Tools and even more compatible than the MCU ..and it should be compatible aswell with other DAW's...I would love to know from users that may have the MotorMate how the compability with Pro Tools and other programs is...



SUMMERY
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
My choice is today between the MCU and the MotorMate. I have to say Im more into the MotorMate (have to admit that Im buing their quality talk ) but is still much confused in what to buy. Im desperate and WANT FEEDBACK to be able to find my final choice. The most important thing is to find out and compare the functionality of the two devices together with Pro Tools and other programs such as Cubase or Reason. So feel free to give any info about this topic!

I happend to see that the user Bodie was going to NAMM and was "going to grill them on functionality" in this particular mather. Im very interested in what you found out there Bodie..


I hope you guys had the energy to read all the way down here and I want to thank you in advance for any help...

/Eco

[funkpolbrother]

Eco,
I can't give you any information on the MotorMate vs. Mackie Control...however, I've been a Mackie Hui user for about 5 years now, and I have recently acqired a CM Labs MotorMix. Based on my experience, the Mackie Hui is more functional in a ProTools environment than the MotorMix....there are more dedicated buttons for Editing/Keyboard shortcuts, etc... With that being said, the MotorMix is constructed like a tank....the Hui has always felt a bit fragile to me.

As far as working with these units on multiple DAW's, I don't have any experience.....I haven't tried the MotorMix with Reason yet, but I'm not really sure I'd want to with this app. I know that the MCU has great support when working between DAW's, and CM Labs claims to....sorry I can't be more help on this topic.

In expanding your fader count, obviously you'll be looking at basically doubling the cost of your investment. In my opinion, the Mackie extensions are grossly overpriced. Perhaps consider a MotorMate with a couple of MotorMixes...I know these units don't have "touch sensitive" faders....I was actually VERY concerned about this before getting the unit, but haven't really had a problem adapting to it....not to mention I picked mine up DIRT CHEAP on eBay (under $300 USD).

I hope this helped....just my 2 cents worth.

[Eco]

Thanks for your feedback...

I didnt know about the MotorMix's "NON-touch sensitive" faders..and I have to say that fact worries me abit just like you say you did...but I can imagine, as you say, that you learn quite fast to adapt to it, even though you only paid 300$ for it!! On the other hand, it would probably take a while for me to afford a MotorMix or two to expand after a expensive MotorMate purchase

You say the MCU has better functionality with Protools than the MotorMix..I do belive so too...but MotorMate seems to have all those "missing" buttons for Editing/Keyboard shortcuts, etc that the MCU has...

I must say that its very nice to hear from a consumer that their claimed "supreme" quality really is there...all control surfaces should be build "as a tank"

Im abit curious about your experience with the "scrub/shuttle wheel" on the MCU..functionality...quality...is it an important function in your eyes...

Finaly...thanks again!

/Eco

[funkpolbrother]

The Hui that I work on daily has a great scroll wheel....although I don't find myself using that often....most other folks I know using DAW's w/ scroll wheels use them all of the time...I guess I'm the odd man out. Anyway, I have seen Hui's with really BAD scroll wheels that "stick", and are fairly unusable. I'd assume many folks wouldn't like the MotorMix primarily due to the lack of a scoll wheel...I however do not really miss it. Good luck with finding the right controller for you!!!

[jofromabove]

Hi
what makes me think the most is the 10bit (command8) against 8bit(other midi controler) faderresolution. I mean: what do i need a controler, if I´m gonna have to grab for the mouse to finetune. And 128 steps just isnt enough for volumecontrol. I used to use the Peavey PC 1600 and besides the lack of motorfaders, statusdisplays and usable buttons the midibandwidth was another thing that made it unpractible, even with lots of good will.

j

[funkpolbrother]

Joefromabove,
I'm sorry to hear that you've trouble with your MIDI based controller. I don't understand what you mean about the lack of predictability though. I have worked on these type of controllers, basically since the introduction of the HUI...I work professionally in the post production world and have found these quite helpful....my workflow is much more "fluid" than it would be with working w/ a mouse alone....not to mention A LOT quicker. Of couse there are some drawbacks to the less expensive units, but let's think cost vs. productivity....MotorMixes are going for next to nothing these days, and are totally functional pieces of gear.

[jofromabove]

I getya funkybro. But in my opinion the perfect controler needs a perfect responce. I´d say thats more important than a srubwheel, even though scubbing is a blast and makes me feel good everytime I scrub. I believe in postpro scrubbing is a bigger thing tho, right?
And of course, right now, if someone came up to me and said: "Hey ! want my modomix? its 250." i´d take it.

j

[Eco]

About fader-resolutions...The creators of the Motormate says an interesting thing on their webpage :

"The fader data is transmitted to 9 bits of accuracy (some companies claim 10 bits, but DAW software works with 9 bits, not 10 ! ! )"

this means midi can transmit in 9 bits...

Im not sure I've understod how this works...is 1 bit 16 steps of resolution?...I know the digi002's faders have 1024 steps resolution and it connects through firewire...does this mean firewire transmits data in 64 bits...

(Still want some feedback from other users out there with experience from MCU or Motormate )

[jofromabove]

ohhh you got me. So 128 steps is actually 7bit. That makes 9bit=512steps and 10bit=1024.
Ok. I guess they dont have to use regular controlchangemessages for their comunication. So thats good news.
j

[RUNRUN]

Hi
what makes me think the most is the 10bit (command8) against 8bit(other midi controler) faderresolution. I mean: what do i need a controler, if I´m gonna have to grab for the mouse to finetune. And 128 steps just isnt enough for volumecontrol. I used to use the Peavey PC 1600 and besides the lack of motorfaders, statusdisplays and usable buttons the midibandwidth was another thing that made it unpractible, even with lots of good will.

j

If you take the HUI, for example it has the ALT/FINE function which allows the fine adjustments.
I wouldn't compare the PC1600 to any of the controller available it's just a different type of product.
If you spend some time working with the C8, C24, HUI, MC or Motor you will stop being concerned about the whole fader resolution thing. It's more of a SPEC than a performance aspect.
The internal sorftware of the controller and it's implementation determine what is transmitted and the DAW determines how it's delt with.