Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-27-2007, 09:05 AM
Elwood54 Elwood54 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 13
Default can\'t export General MIDI file

I have a dual G5 with PTLE 7.3.1 Mbox 2 and want to export an edited MIDI file as a General MIDI file. I don't have a MIDI instrument, but need to create General MIDI files to email to fellow band members to play on QuickTime Player, etc., to comment on or practice various arrangements of music we perform. I've tried importing the "General MIDI" patch name file as described on page 74 of the Getting Started manual, but no file imports and the displayed patch name file remains at "None." Before I ask what I'm doing wrong, can PTLE even export a simple General MIDI file? Importing, editing and exporting General MIDI files is the only reason I bought Pro Tools instead of using GarageBand.
__________________
Dual G5, MacBook Pro, PTLE 7.3 with Mbox 2, Fender Jazz bass guitar, golden retriever
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-27-2007, 11:19 PM
lwilliam lwilliam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Allison Park, PA (Near Pittsburgh)
Posts: 5,099
Default Re: can\'t export General MIDI file

You must mean a Standard Midi File or SMF. They come in Type 0 and Type 1.

General Midi (GM) is simply an agreement amongst manufacturers that a certain patch number will produce a certain type of sound (over-simplified, but essentially true). You need a General Midi sound module in order to do your arrangements in General Midi format. Do you have one?

PTLE certainly can export an SMF, but you have to assign the patch numbers in the tracks correctly or it won't make any sense to someone using a GM sound module.

Here is a link to some essential General Midi information:

http://www.midi.org/about-midi/gm/gm1sound.shtml
__________________
Larry

PT 2021; MacBookPro M1; 16GB; Spectrasonics; Native Instruments, Toontrack, Waves...too many plugins.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-28-2007, 06:56 AM
Elwood54 Elwood54 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 13
Default Re: can\'t export General MIDI file

Thanks for the quick reply. I don't know what you mean by a General MIDI sound module, so I guess the answer would be no. After creating a bogus MIDI device in Audio MIDI Setup and naming it General MIDI, I was able to import /Library/Audio/MIDI Patch Names/Digidesign/General MIDI/General MIDI.midnam. I have several tracks set up as different instruments, for example 33 Acoustic Bass, 34 Electric Bass (finger), 35 Electric Bass (pick), etc., but when I export a MIDI file and play this in the QuickTime (7) Player, I hear piano and several types of keyboards, not basses. It's not critical that my instruments sound exactly like the ones others hear, but they should hear some version of a similar instrument. Of course, it would also be nice if I could hear QuickTime's version of the General MIDI instrument sounds, but maybe that will come in a future version of PTLE. Am I on the right track?
__________________
Dual G5, MacBook Pro, PTLE 7.3 with Mbox 2, Fender Jazz bass guitar, golden retriever
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-28-2007, 09:31 AM
lwilliam lwilliam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Allison Park, PA (Near Pittsburgh)
Posts: 5,099
Default Re: can\'t export General MIDI file

Yes. The Quicktime Musical Instruments is a GM module that ships with the Mac OS and is what gets used in Quicktime when you play a midi file through it. Unfortunately, I don't know of a way you can use it with Protools. I've used QT Instruments with Logic Pro, but not with PT.

You can buy hardware synths/modules that conform to the GM spec. I can't think of any off-hand, but check the lower-end of Edirol, Roland, Korg, and Yamaha synth modules. They're usually in the $200-300 price range. You can probably pick one up used in ebay.

I do know about a software-based GM module that will work with PT quite nicely from Native Instruments. It's called Bandstand and it's not very expensive (<$200). If you qualify for the Educational version, it's usually around $125.

http://www.native-instruments.com/in...d=bandstand_us

Another option if you work a lot with GM sounds and can do your work in standard notation is to purchase Sibelius Student edition for under $100.

What sound module are you using now to make the sounds in PTLE? You may be able to remap them so that at least they're close to the GM spec. That wouldn't cost you anything except some time with the instrument manual.
__________________
Larry

PT 2021; MacBookPro M1; 16GB; Spectrasonics; Native Instruments, Toontrack, Waves...too many plugins.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-28-2007, 12:17 PM
Elwood54 Elwood54 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 13
Default Re: can\'t export General MIDI file

I've read elsewhere on this forum how unfortunate it is that PTLE doesn't support QuickTime instruments. It would be sweet if a future version did, as well as everything that works with GarageBand. I do have Finale's $99 PrintMusic, which allows me to work in standard notation, supports QuickTime instruments, imports MIDI files, and exports MIDI files with multiple instruments that do play properly in QT Player, etc. Unfortunately, it doesn't exchange MIDI files with PTLE as gracefully as I had expected.

All I have installed is what came with the PTLE Mbox 2, but usually use mono sounds from Sampletank. It doesn't matter to me if the particular instrument I hear in PTLE sounds exactly like the one others hear when they listen to the MIDI file on whatever player they use, as long as it's the same type of instrument. If I needed it to sound exactly as I set it up, I'd create an audio file, but that would rarely occur for my purpose. Otherwise, Bandstand looks pretty good!

I've been toying with the idea of getting a low-end keyboard for note entry, but I'll admit I'm stumped as to how having the hardware would enable PTLE to properly add the patches or program changes to correctly assign instruments to various channels for a disk file in a project that typically wouldn't input from nor output to the keyboard.

Essentially, it just makes no sense to me why a MIDI file from the project shown below plays in the QuickTime player (not in PTLE) as various keyboards, not various basses as are specified:

[image]http://rj-graffix.com/music/PTLE_MIDI_channels.jpg[/image]
__________________
Dual G5, MacBook Pro, PTLE 7.3 with Mbox 2, Fender Jazz bass guitar, golden retriever
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-28-2007, 02:00 PM
Elwood54 Elwood54 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 13
Default Re: can\'t export General MIDI file

Ah, success -- sort of. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Now if I can just narrow down why some sessions export general MIDI instruments correctly and others don't, I'll post my findings here.
__________________
Dual G5, MacBook Pro, PTLE 7.3 with Mbox 2, Fender Jazz bass guitar, golden retriever
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-28-2007, 05:07 PM
lwilliam lwilliam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Allison Park, PA (Near Pittsburgh)
Posts: 5,099
Default Re: can\'t export General MIDI file

Yes, it's kind of stupid that Digi doesn't support QT Instruments. If they want to break more into the educational market, they really should.

You may need to look through the Midi Event List in PTLE to see why they aren't working.

It lists every midi command/event in the track, including the patch/program assignments, volume information and each midi note. You can set a filter to view only the Program Change commands.

It may be a little overwhelming at first, but there is a whole chapter in the PTLE Reference Manual on the Midi Event List that should make it understandable. If you're serious about midi, you will need to become familiar with the event list.
__________________
Larry

PT 2021; MacBookPro M1; 16GB; Spectrasonics; Native Instruments, Toontrack, Waves...too many plugins.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-29-2007, 04:40 AM
Elwood54 Elwood54 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 13
Default Re: can\'t export General MIDI file

Thanks, I definitely will look into the event list.

I think I have a clue as to why my session wasn't exporting correctly. I created one measure with several notes and a chord, then option-dragged that region from track 1, measure 1, to track 2, measure 2, and so on through track 16. Track 10, predictably, was always percussion. In the session that did export correctly to general MIDI with whichever instruments I specified, I had unique content in each track, which is actually more like a real-life session. It's puzzling that in the first test session, where each track contained a copy of the same region, each track exported to MIDI with a different instrument--they were just all keyboard instruments--but I suppose studying the MIDI event list would shed some light on that. Then again, I now know not to copy regions to different tracks with different instruments if I intend to export a general MIDI file from it.

It appears, unless I'm missing something, that I can set up instrument tracks for editing, then before exporting to MIDI I have to change each track to output to a different MIDI channel and then assign each patch to its corresponding instrument. If I want to do more editing, I'll need to go back and reassign each plugin instrument (and lose the MIDI setup).

The good news is that PTLE will export a General MIDI file without any additional hardware or software.
__________________
Dual G5, MacBook Pro, PTLE 7.3 with Mbox 2, Fender Jazz bass guitar, golden retriever
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Export MIDI Without General MIDI assignments grhufnagl 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 0 02-24-2009 09:12 AM
Does anyone have a midnam file for general midi? steve_without Pro Tools M-Powered (Win) 0 06-19-2007 10:39 AM
can't specify piano in General MIDI export Elwood54 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 0 04-25-2007 05:08 PM
General MIDI file Import gone crazy pramsay MIDI 0 01-07-2005 04:50 PM
Saving Protools midi files as a general midi file Kev MIDI 3 08-13-2002 05:27 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:06 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com