Employment for Pro Tool experts versus audio engineers

[ACT]

Hello Fellow DUC'ers.

I recently considered the Pro's and Con's of becoming a certified Pro Tools Expert in Music & post production, versus taking a more general education in audio engineering that would introduce me to Pro Tools among other programs.

I decided that Pro Tools was only one, albeit significant, layer of knowledge that one will truly need, so to go ahead with the more general audio engineering school (SAE in NYC), but one thing that confuses me is that I see on some recording sessions that there is a specified Pro Tools engineer involved sometimes.

So my question is: Can anybody give me any advice as to becoming a Pro Tools Expert in and of itself is too narrow, or is it the USP of anybody wanting to work in the field of recording, producing etc today? Can you be a Pro Tools Expert without being an audio engineer in the first place? I understand that life is tough these days for Audio Engineers, but I kind of doubt that a relatively easy to take Pro Tools Expert certificate will do much to change anything for any one of these committed individuals? On the other hand - maybe not?

all the best,
Anders

[Redbeard]

As a "ProTools Expert" being a "ProTools Expert" without being an "Audio Expert" engineer seems useless to me. You will only limit yourself to being someone's assistant running the PT rig while he/she does the real work.

I put "ProTools Expert" in quotes because I don't think that expertise in this field is very useful without knowing a hell of a lot about audio, recording, microphones, mixing, etc.

Are there construction workers who are Certified "Tablesaw Experts?"

Oh, damn, I forgot about unions. There probably are.

[ACT]

Originally posted by Redbeard:
As a "ProTools Expert" being a "ProTools Expert" without being an "Audio Expert" engineer seems useless to me. You will only limit yourself to being someone's assistant running the PT rig while he/she does the real work.

I put "ProTools Expert" in quotes because I don't think that expertise in this field is very useful without knowing a hell of a lot about audio, recording, microphones, mixing, etc.

Are there construction workers who are Certified "Tablesaw Experts?"

Oh, damn, I forgot about unions. There probably are.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HAHA - I thought so. Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions, although it is scary that I actually had to ask the question!

[Sir Charles the Audible]

What good is being a PT Expert without knowing the difference between a D/I and a headphone multitap box. Seems like a gross exageration, but actually had a second engineer that didn't even know what a D/I was. He brought me 3 things before I got fed up, went over and got it myself.

PT Expert is too narrow by itself, but a being an Audio Guru with PT certification can only help you.

Good luck!

[bjorn for a reason]

Don't forget another really important part of the equation...... Solid knowledge of music theory!!!!!!!!!!

[Sir Charles the Audible]

Here Here, Perhaps I should've said Tonmeister instead of Audio Engineer.

[Sir Charles the Audible]

[quote]Originally posted by kakaroto:

Sometimes you find a kat with all the right stuff in his/her head, and they went to audio school, those kids are GREAT! but very few and very far betwene.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is equivalent to a "Get out of Jail Free" card.

[davemc]

Originally posted by kakaroto:

They could have lived off that 40 grand for 2 years while they worked a free internship and I could have molded them into a great paid assist. who would be on the way to being an engineer.

[/QB]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thats the thing I get lots of emails/calls from guys who have paid $$$'s for a course and now are looking for the PAID jobs they were promised.
They want to be paid to start with....
When I say I might throw some paid demo sessions to them., only if they can show me after a couple of months they can go solo. They say but I have a piece of paper saying I can, why should I start for free.... As if they do not have to prove themselves, I had one guy say I am fully qualified and I asked how many bands he record. 6 band demos in 2 years.. [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[Sir Charles the Audible]

Originally posted by kakaroto:
Man this is EXACTILY what is wrong with younger engineers.

**** being a Pro Smak expert. ITS JUST A TOOL! How many guys in the field that are now considered 'Mix Guru's" went to audio school?

Few.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kakaroto, I'm not sure which of the above messages you were replying to, but I don't think any of them suggested that one would be fine with just certification. And as far as 'Mix Guru's' going to audio schools, I agree with you few. But. audio is a relatively new field as far as pedagogy goes. I believe the first degree program was University of Miami and thats under 30 years old if I'm mistaken. The Audio field has been around a lot longer than that. So when our said gurus were wanting to get into the audio field, there wasn't much alternative than to work up from janitor. On the other hand, electrical engineering and the like had been around longer than audio, so has music performance. Many gurus did have a background in either or both.

I am also skeptical on how studios still have staff janitors (most don't even have staff engineers any more); how many of them contract a cleaning company? Of those studios, how many of them are run out of a home? I don't hire a janitor for my house.

My opinions, looking foreward to replies.

-C

[digiengineer]

Originally posted by kakaroto:
Man this is EXACTILY what is wrong with younger engineers.

**** being a Pro Smak expert. ITS JUST A TOOL! How many guys in the field that are now considered 'Mix Guru's" went to audio school?

Few.

How many give 2 ***** about a PT cert?

NONE.

How many just started in a major studio as a ****ing janitor and worked up to thier carrer.

Many.

Just because you can use this TOOL doesent make an engineer of you. It's ****ing Absurd, like saying well I learned how to calibrate the Studer, move over Andy Wallace I'm mixing the next one!

I've met many of you so called Pro Tools Gurus and most of you piss me off.

Learn to be and engineer and use your tools. PT can be a powerfull tool, as long as you don't have a tool running the tool.

ACT.. please do not misunderstand me. SAE might be a great place for you to go but a PT cert is not even usefull as Toilet Paper.

kakaroto

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, PT Cert doesn't mean squat! I eat 'em for breakfast. If you can't align a analog deck, hang a mic and get signal, you're pretty much useless. ALL of the "Pro Tools Experts" that I know are also extremely talented engineers/technicians. They're just as comfortable with a Neve 8078 and a Studer A800 as they are with a 64 ch. HD system w/a bunch of plugs and a Pro Control.

I started in live sound and in small-to-mid level studios, and THEN went to school. What I found was that I already knew the basics of recording and audio engineering, I just needed some more practice, but school wasn't the place for that, I needed to immerse myself in all forms of audio engineering if I was going to learn this trade the right way.

Over 12 years deep and still learning... but aren't we all! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Just like tape, Pro Tools will go away (hopefully not for a long time!) and you'll just have to learn something else, but if you don't know the basics, you'll never get far.

Good Luck!