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  #1  
Old 08-09-2022, 04:39 AM
BoRiZ KukoBa BoRiZ KukoBa is offline
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Default One masterbus mix vs Multi masterbus

Hi.
I've been working with Pro Tools HD (MixCube, HD, Ultimate, Flex) for about 20 years now.
I want to ask the respected community about the details of mixing with HDX cards.

I did some simple experiments and found out that there is a significant difference in the transparency of the mix if you output tracks not to one master bus, but to as many masterbuses as possible.

At the same time, I send all these buses to the same physical output in the I/O settings.

I have a regular HD Omni interface and don't have an any analog summing device.
Why such a difference in sound? Is there a technical reason for this? Or maybe it seemed to me?

.:UPD:.
GO TO TEST RESULT

Thank you.
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Last edited by BoRiZ KukoBa; 09-04-2022 at 05:59 AM. Reason: updating
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  #2  
Old 08-09-2022, 06:15 AM
climber climber is offline
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Default Re: One masterbus mix vs Multi masterbus

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoRiZ KukoBa View Post
Hi.
I did some simple experiments and found out that there is a significant difference in the transparency of the mix if you output tracks not to one master bus, but to as many masterbuses as possible.
really? "..as many as possible..."?
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  #3  
Old 08-10-2022, 12:58 AM
BoRiZ KukoBa BoRiZ KukoBa is offline
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Default Re: One masterbus mix vs Multi masterbus

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Originally Posted by climber View Post
really? "..as many as possible..."?
Ok, I understand your sarcasm. I understand that this is kind of crazy.
But I purposefully did this test dozens of times and every time I get same result.

I was wondering if someone had done similar experiments and someone had similar impressions/results.
Sorry if I distracted the attention of the community with this nonsense)

PS. I know people from among those who were involved in the development of the HDX engine. (The HDX card and part of the Pro Tools code was developed in Kyiv, Ukraine).
They opined that the card's mixer was bad at correcting errors. When many signals arrive on the same bus, the errors add up, which can adds "muddy" to the sound.
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Old 08-10-2022, 08:35 AM
climber climber is offline
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Default Re: One masterbus mix vs Multi masterbus

have you output them both ways and then seen if they null?
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CleverSounds Recording

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OS X Big Sur, Late 2013 MacPro, 6 core, 64 GB RAM, Orion Studio , PT2021.12, Slate Raven MTi2, ISA428, ADL600, Distressor, Grace 501, Dimedio, Obsidian, One LA, BAC500, Harrison 32 EQ, UAD2 OCTO, Focal 6 be, Auratones...
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Old 08-10-2022, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: One masterbus mix vs Multi masterbus

The idea is not to get them null. Idea is to have more tuning options with ME on the final critical listening phase.

Say you have drum kit buss, solo bass track, guitar buss, misc buss, vocals buss and solo lead vocal track, that would all then again routed to your monitoring outputs. Just an example. When you bounce all of them and import to a new mastering session, you for example have easy possibilities to fine tune bass track levels without affecting anything else.

Then again, even if you trust your ME and want to experiment, also remember to bounce your monitoring outputs, a.k.a. your 2-track take on the song. When it is good it is good.
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  #6  
Old 08-10-2022, 11:37 PM
BoRiZ KukoBa BoRiZ KukoBa is offline
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Default Re: One masterbus mix vs Multi masterbus

Quote:
Originally Posted by climber View Post
have you output them both ways and then seen if they null?
I haven't tried yet. Before that, I listened only subjectively.
I will try to make this test and post the result here.
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Old 08-10-2022, 11:40 PM
BoRiZ KukoBa BoRiZ KukoBa is offline
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Default Re: One masterbus mix vs Multi masterbus

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
The idea is not to get them null. Idea is to have more tuning options with ME on the final critical listening phase.
Yes, and this is also one of the useful tip of this method.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
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  #8  
Old 08-11-2022, 01:05 AM
RamiHashash RamiHashash is offline
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Default Re: One masterbus mix vs Multi masterbus

I have found the exact opposite to be the case for me.

When every track in the session is going out outputs 1-2 everything is as it should be.

As soon as I start bussing and routing through aux busses, it’s like the transients get smeared. Punch is gone and the stereo field seems narrower.

Also the case if there are any plugins on the Master Fader.

This is by no means fact. It could just be my brain messing with me.
Then again, I have been doing this a long time.


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  #9  
Old 08-11-2022, 02:59 AM
thin ice thin ice is offline
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Default Re: One masterbus mix vs Multi masterbus

Would this happen on a Native system? Maybe you are separating different types of processing.
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Old 08-11-2022, 06:02 AM
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Default Re: One masterbus mix vs Multi masterbus

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoRiZ KukoBa View Post
Hi.
I've been working with Pro Tools HD (MixCube, HD, Ultimate, Flex) for about 20 years now.
I want to ask the respected community about the details of mixing with HDX cards.

I did some simple experiments and found out that there is a significant difference in the transparency of the mix if you output tracks not to one master bus, but to as many masterbuses as possible.

At the same time, I send all these buses to the same physical output in the I/O settings.

I have a regular HD Omni interface and don't have an any analog summing device.
Why such a difference in sound? Is there a technical reason for this? Or maybe it seemed to me?

Thank you.
Hum I am a bit confused so to clarify are you actually meaning Master Fader tracks as sub busses ? ---and what would the logistical difference be between multi Master Faders and a single Master Fader if they are going out a single stereo pair of main outs ???
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