NEW -> Pro Tools | Carbon Pre

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by K Roche

You are certainly not alone JTC11 has stated he would buy a non pre amp Carbon AVB 16 channel Extension unit for his existing Carbon In a heart beat. For his outboard pres and FX units Hopefully such a unit is next on list of expansion options

I also already have a monitoring setup with a Cranesong Avocet II. So the monitor section, unless I go surround, isn't necessary. To go Surround on the Avocet is quite expensive so the surround option is tempting.

Any more information is great. Just landed an unexpected gig that is paying well, so it might be some tax time things.

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by LDS

It is the stupidity of AVB in general, really. Presonus, MOTU, Avid... they are all guilty of it. Standardized forms of AVB, like MILAN, have existed for quite a while. They have certification programs. They guarantee interoperability with other MILAN devices. None of them bothered to do it though. Instead, Avid want to sell owners of their live sound desks an MILAN expansion card so you can run.... two types of AVB in one system.

That is good to know. I would still like to know if the AVID AVB limits me outside of AVID products in general.

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Originally Posted by JTC111

I got into it a bit with Barry in the comment section of that video and made this point about his price complaint:
As for the 8-channel Carbon Pre being $3k, that's what you'd pay for a 4-channel John Hardy pre. Is that more than, let's say, a Focusrite OctoPre, yes, but it's also a better quality preamp. You've heard those preamps so I'm pretty sure you know how good they are. Quality costs money, no? If I needed eight extra preamps, the Carbon Pre is actually a fairly economically friendly option compared to the boutique options on the market.

As I said to you over at AGF, I don't need the pres. What I really want to see is a 16 channel Avid AVB box without pres. I'm buying that the day it comes out and I have to think that's in the works if Avid is looking at UA as a direct competitor in this market.

That would be nice. Isn't that what the MTRX thing is?

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by LDS

The MTRX Studio already has AoIP through Dante. It is quite superior to AVB. Lower latency, cross platform support, guaranteed interoperability between manufacturers, etc. There is a reason why other manufacturers like MOTU and Presonus keep offering thunderbolt on their interfaces. AVB just isn't very good.


The Carbon & S6L preamps are nothing more than THAT Corp 1580 Preamp ICs and THAT Corp 5173 digital gain controllers. About $12USD worth of ICs from mouser. THAT Corp make good chips... but they are designed to be cost effective. Most manufacturers advertising digitally controlled preamps in this day and age use them in basically the same design.

The Hardy M-1 on the other hand contains a $50 discrete 990C opamp, and a $199 Jensen JT-16-A input transformer and a $89 Jensen JT-11-BMQ output transformer. It is a totally different kettle of handmade fish. The kind that people were using 20 years ago, and will still be using in 20 years time after Avid have given the flick to Avid Carbon Preamps, their power supplies have terminally failed and Apple have left AVB support for dead.

I don't really know what a comparison between the Carbon Pre and Hardy preamps really serves, other than outlining that the M-1 is either comparatively cheap for what you get... or the Carbon Pre is overpriced.

The best Snare and kick I recorded though a Hardy back in 2004. It was patched into the 9k and I said lets go with the Hardy and that changed it all. I also had an Elecrodyn proto 8 channel pre the rest of the kit went through. I don't think Ken every released that one.

I definitely don't like being compressed into one eco system, so Dante feels like a better choice.

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by Philthy

Native vs DSP has nothing to do with flexible I/O configurations and I'm not sure why you brought it up. Maybe my use of ADC as analog digital conversion was confusing... I'm not talking about delay compensation.

The Quantum line has had 3 models so far that have targeted different I/O configs. This is a model Avid has used for multiple gens of hardware, e.g. 192 Analog vs 192 Digital, ADAT bridges, HD I/O... many ways to customize system I/O. But so far, we get no inputs for existing front end, without adding our own conversion, or passing through limited channels with unneeded interface preamps.

The Quantum 4848 shows what kind of A/D input is doable in an affordable 1 rack unit. I'm certainly not the only one with existing analog front end and no need for 8 onboard preamps. I could really use a Carbon system with 24 channels of A/D conversion, so I can use my existing analog front end without adding the cost & complexity of ADAT conversion, and without 8 channels of onboard preamps, that while I'm certain are totally good, are still not quite boutique analog preamps.

Avid often offers flexible I/O configurations. I hope they continue to build on the Carbon line to meet more users' needs. A base unit with a bunch of A/D conversion would be ideal for people with existing front end gear.

This has to be the most interesting, informative thread on the DUC I've seen in a decade.

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This is interesting. Not glowing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcaK-9hzVwE

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtSObLTLFuM

[LDS]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

The best Snare and kick I recorded though a Hardy back in 2004. It was patched into the 9k and I said lets go with the Hardy and that changed it all. I also had an Elecrodyn proto 8 channel pre the rest of the kit went through. I don't think Ken every released that one.

I definitely don't like being compressed into one eco system, so Dante feels like a better choice.

Yeah, they are amazing preamps. I am a big fan of Doc Kane's ADR and dialogue work in Disney/Pixar films. He seems to use Hardy preamps for all of his stuff.

Carbon does compress you into one eco system as it really only works effectively in Pro Tools. You won't have access to any of the DSP processing or low latency monitoring in other DAWs and applications, and the latency of the AVB connection when using native is super high by modern standards. It would also be worth reading the comments Matt Hepworth (the same guy in the video you posted) made a few pages ago. It seems like there are quite a few issues with Carbon working reliably. Carbon isn't really like other Avid interfaces in that sense. Avid write and update the drivers for HDX and HDN. For Carbon, Avid rely on Apple and the way they integrate AVB support directly into MacOS. At a glance at least, MOTU also seem to be having a lot of issues with AVB stability too.

If you are still rocking a 5,1 Mac Pro, I would definitely keep playing the waiting game. Upgrading from my old 12-core 5,1 Mac Pro to a 10-core iMac Pro was a game changer. The newer Apple Silicon stuff seems pretty mind boggling, even compared to my iMac Pro. If you have the budget for the new Mac Pro, the Avid Carbon isn't really going to bring a whole lot to the party at all.

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by LDS

Yeah, they are amazing preamps. I am a big fan of Doc Kane's ADR and dialogue work in Disney/Pixar films. He seems to use Hardy preamps for all of his stuff.

Carbon does compress you into one eco system as it really only works effectively in Pro Tools. You won't have access to any of the DSP processing or low latency monitoring in other DAWs and applications, and the latency of the AVB connection when using native is super high by modern standards. It would also be worth reading the comments Matt Hepworth (the same guy in the video you posted) made a few pages ago. It seems like there are quite a few issues with Carbon working reliably. Carbon isn't really like other Avid interfaces in that sense. Avid write and update the drivers for HDX and HDN. For Carbon, Avid rely on Apple and the way they integrate AVB support directly into MacOS. At a glance at least, MOTU also seem to be having a lot of issues with AVB stability too.

If you are still rocking a 5,1 Mac Pro, I would definitely keep playing the waiting game. Upgrading from my old 12-core 5,1 Mac Pro to a 10-core iMac Pro was a game changer. The newer Apple Silicon stuff seems pretty mind boggling, even compared to my iMac Pro. If you have the budget for the new Mac Pro, the Avid Carbon isn't really going to bring a whole lot to the party at all.

Interesting. Thank you. I think Doc retired like 15 years ago.

Based on your post it make me thing DANTE is just the way to go. I have a 10 core Macbook Pro (m1) with 32 gigs ram, but for my studio I want something more modular. I figured it the Mac mini came out I could use that as an intermittent.
The New OS is out so that means mean more waiting.

Aside that, I've know MADI well and DANTE seems very and completely the IO of the future.
I asked my friend Ken why can't I just take a CAT5 cable and wire it for audio. That was 20 years ago.

Hold pattern. If I could get a Euphonix studio router and some 703/4 and 713/4 on a MADI card that would be great.
But they are pretty old.
Thought's on the DANTE system and interfaces? Latency in mind. REDNET seems to be great.

[audiolex1]

And then there is Ferrofish.????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6PctmJQLSU

Costs 600 more.

What say you? Thoughts?

[LDS]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

Interesting. Thank you. I think Doc retired like 15 years ago.

He has been around forever, but is definitely still working - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0437301/

Based on your post it make me thing DANTE is just the way to go. I have a 10 core Macbook Pro (m1) with 32 gigs ram, but for my studio I want something more modular. I figured it the Mac mini came out I could use that as an intermittent.
The New OS is out so that means mean more waiting.

Aside that, I've know MADI well and DANTE seems very and completely the IO of the future.
I asked my friend Ken why can't I just take a CAT5 cable and wire it for audio. That was 20 years ago.

Hold pattern. If I could get a Euphonix studio router and some 703/4 and 713/4 on a MADI card that would be great.
But they are pretty old.
Thought's on the DANTE system and interfaces? Latency in mind. REDNET seems to be great.

The quality of the device and drivers is probably just as important as the protocol they use. I'm a big fan of DAD stuff, because it is so flexible. An AX64 offers Dante, TB, Madi, AES, analogue expansions, etc. It isn't cheap... but it is the end game for me. There really isn't anything it can't do.

I loved working on System 5 desks. You'll need a machine room for their rack units though, as they have pretty loud fans.