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  #1  
Old 09-16-2022, 10:08 AM
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lesbrunn lesbrunn is offline
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Default Midi gurus out there...

Hey guys, I've been using MIDI since it came out in the early early 80s, and it's still an integral part of what I do. We sort of take it for granted, but I believe it's one of the greatest music innovations of this century. I sometimes have to reproduce instrumentation in already recorded songs, and it was usually by ear if scores were unavailable. To the rescue... Audio to MIDI! It's amazing, and I use it sometimes in my usual workflow.

Now to my question: Are there any tricks for targeting specific instruments in a full mix? To be clear, converting an entire mix to MIDI results in a mess of notes. If, for instance, I want to limit the detection and focus on say the piano, is there a way to not have the entire mix detected? Or at least have most of it undetected except for the piano? I've considered the idea of filtering out certain ranges with EQ, but I realize overlapping frequencies could pose a problem and some unneeded instruments might be detected, but editing could remove the unwanted notes. Does anyone have any bright ideas?
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2022, 10:20 AM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Midi gurus out there...

Use a ‘music unmixer’ app to isolate instruments and then use Audio to MIDI.

If you have Izotope RX, you can use the music rebalance module, isolate the bass for example and then use Audio to MIDI in PT to get the MIDI part. Can work well, but it’s obviously program dependant and will likely still need to be cleaned up/edited.


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  #3  
Old 09-16-2022, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: Midi gurus out there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardi View Post
Use a ‘music unmixer’ app to isolate instruments and then use Audio to MIDI.

If you have Izotope RX, you can use the music rebalance module, isolate the bass for example and then use Audio to MIDI in PT to get the MIDI part. Can work well, but it’s obviously program dependant and will likely still need to be cleaned up/edited.


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Hey Sardi, thanks for the quick reply. I have RX 9 and it's incredibly useful, but in 'other instruments' an entire orchestra would be grouped with guitars, keys, etc. Program dependent as you said, but that usually leaves me basically where I started. Can work well if the instrument you are targeting isn't heavily overlayed with other stuff.
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Old 09-16-2022, 08:53 PM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Re: Midi gurus out there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesbrunn View Post
Hey Sardi, thanks for the quick reply. I have RX 9 and it's incredibly useful, but in 'other instruments' an entire orchestra would be grouped with guitars, keys, etc. Program dependent as you said, but that usually leaves me basically where I started. Can work well if the instrument you are targeting isn't heavily overlayed with other stuff.

Totally.

Not knowing what you were going to feed into it, I took a stab in the dark.

But you’re bang on. It will only be useful for minimal stuff not dense layers of instruments. We’re not quite there yet.


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  #5  
Old 09-16-2022, 11:52 PM
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lesbrunn lesbrunn is offline
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Default Re: Midi gurus out there...

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Originally Posted by Sardi View Post
Totally.

Not knowing what you were going to feed into it, I took a stab in the dark.

But you’re bang on. It will only be useful for minimal stuff not dense layers of instruments. We’re not quite there yet.


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Not quite there yet, but it's still magical. Hopefully, it'll be developed further.
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2022, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: Midi gurus out there...

If it's easier/possible to sing/hum the melody or notes you want to transcribe (at least to start off the work), that could be easier than playing for example a horn or string on a MIDI keyboard, and then you could Audio-to-Midi your new recording. I'm not a multi-instrumentalist whatsoever, but I have pretty good relative pitch in my voice that it might work in some situations.

Otherwise, yes, the more complex the mix and melody, the tougher time current tools have for simple extraction and "unmixing." I totally expect machine learning to improve the state of "Music Rebalance" plugs in the coming years. I know my ears have my WHOLE lifetime of training, so it's easiER for me to take a mix apart in my attention, so I think a computer could one day do it at least better than so far. I definitely don't think it's done with!
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2022, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Midi gurus out there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nednednerb View Post
If it's easier/possible to sing/hum the melody or notes you want to transcribe (at least to start off the work), that could be easier than playing for example a horn or string on a MIDI keyboard, and then you could Audio-to-Midi your new recording. I'm not a multi-instrumentalist whatsoever, but I have pretty good relative pitch in my voice that it might work in some situations.

Otherwise, yes, the more complex the mix and melody, the tougher time current tools have for simple extraction and "unmixing." I totally expect machine learning to improve the state of "Music Rebalance" plugs in the coming years. I know my ears have my WHOLE lifetime of training, so it's easiER for me to take a mix apart in my attention, so I think a computer could one day do it at least better than so far. I definitely don't think it's done with!
Yes, Music Rebalance is definitely in its infancy, for sure. Good point about the voice working in some situations; I'll surely remember that in future situations when it can work. But how I wish I had a polyphonic voice! And an ear with the ability to only pick out precisely all the piano chords/inversions/arpeggios/embellishments together with velocity nuances when they are deeply embedded in layers of thick multi-orchestral instrumentation! Yes, I can hear what chords are being played overall, but I can only approximate a little fraction of all of the above, and definitely not polyphonically with my voice... Maybe I'll just have to do my own version of the part as closely as I can by ear. That can be really time-consuming.
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  #8  
Old 12-31-2022, 01:28 PM
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Default Re: Midi gurus out there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesbrunn View Post
Hey guys, I've been using MIDI since it came out in the early early 80s, and it's still an integral part of what I do. We sort of take it for granted, but I believe it's one of the greatest music innovations of this century. I sometimes have to reproduce instrumentation in already recorded songs, and it was usually by ear if scores were unavailable. To the rescue... Audio to MIDI! It's amazing, and I use it sometimes in my usual workflow.

Now to my question: Are there any tricks for targeting specific instruments in a full mix? To be clear, converting an entire mix to MIDI results in a mess of notes. If, for instance, I want to limit the detection and focus on say the piano, is there a way to not have the entire mix detected? Or at least have most of it undetected except for the piano? I've considered the idea of filtering out certain ranges with EQ, but I realize overlapping frequencies could pose a problem and some unneeded instruments might be detected, but editing could remove the unwanted notes. Does anyone have any bright ideas?
I think Melodyne studio does that.
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