Solutions and Workarounds For Accel TDM Studios To Use Pro Tools 11

[relaxo]

The Dilemma:
Pro Tools 11 is amazing and revolutionary on so many levels and it's a great loss for TDM pro studios that they can't use it. A large loss in Avid sales as well, not just in software, but hardware as well. Hardware? You'll find out why below. It's certain that hundreds (thousands?) of studios can't get rid of their Accel workstations in the foreseeable future. One category is studios supported by visiting engineers with non-AAX'ed plugins in their sessions. How are rooms that must keep their Accel cards planning to run Pro Tools 11 in any real sense? What are/might be your solutions?

(please, this is a huge and real problem for those that feed their families with Pro Tools. I know emotions are on fire in here these days, but please respond with only real solutions, viable right now or certain to come out within six months. Please don't reply with thoughts on Avid's motivations, stock price, why you'll never use Pro Tools again, your feelings, the future of Thunderbolt 2, data throughput facts, etc etc etc)


The Curse:
PT 11 will not output through the the studio's multi-channel interfaces connected to the Accel cards, not even using Coreaudio and certainly not, of course, using TDM.


The Possible Solutions:
1)The easiest and by far the best solution is for Avid to rewrite some code and enable PT 11 to send CoreAudio through Avid interfaces. (Logic Pro can use Accel>interface as 8 channel CoreAudio, but PT can't?) Avid say's it's not worth it to spend the time and money on this, so we must accept this and move on. (I do not expect Avid to rewrite to enable full TDM on Accel in PT11, just CoreAudio via Accel.)

(Solutions 2-5 preface) Professionals studios are built around a high quality multichannel interface(s) and are usually very expensive. They are connected to Accel cards. To operate with full efficiency and normality, these interfaces are wired into the patchbays of each room. These wired up installations and the interfaces are both extremely expensive and many studios have 2-10 rooms. PT 11 cannot run through this IO interface and patchbay if connected to Accel cards, either by TDM or Coreaudio! So what do we do? What are you going to do? Help!

2) By far the second best option is two Accel PCIe cards and an HD Native PCIe card at the same time in the same Mac Pro and then swapping your Digilink cable between the two types cards running to each room's Avid HD IO interface? Is that possible? Avid? Anyone? If so, I would go for that as an interim solution and would be extremely happy given the cost+time buying and wiring up an Apogee Symphony IO (in addition to our Avid HD IOs!) into our patchbay systems.

3) buy a redundant super-expensive Firewire or PCIe multi-channel interface system like Apogee Symphony or UA Apollo to run PT11 through and do all the expensive patchbay wiring work to install/integrate it..…over and over FOR EACH OF YOUR ROOMS! Huge boooo.


Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to get 4+ channels of PT11 IO going on a Mac Pro with Accel cards inside? And what are/might be your solutions in your Mac Pros with Accel cards??

[nst7]

Option no. 2 might work. I have not tested it, but I have an HD Native card.

When my HD interface (the Omni) is not turned on (or disconnected), I get a message saying it can't find a valid HD interface, and forces me to select another type of interface (3rd party, built in output, etc.).

So what this means is that it will only see the card with the interface hooked up to it as the valid HD system. I'm thinking that your plan might work, in the sense that it would default to whichever card has the HD interfaces hooked up via the digilink cable.

But that doesn't answer other questions about if the system would be confused by the mere presence of two different types of cards. I'm just saying that this way might be possible.

I don't know if it's possible for you to somehow borrow an HD Native card from your dealer (perhaps a demo or returned one, etc.) or from someone else you know, to try your theory. That would hopefully answer the question.

[Kasper]

If you need to run TDM plugs, you need a PT version that will support TDM.
PT 11 does not.

Your patch bay/wiring needs are minor, everything's DB25. It's the TDM cards, not what's connected to them.


kasper

[Kasper]

How are you running PT 11 now?

Are you running Core Audio VIA the built-in Mac Hardware?

What about optical out of the Mac?


kasper

[relaxo]

Originally Posted by Kasper

Your patch bay/wiring needs are minor, everything's DB25.

It is not practical or minor to switch DB25 connections every time studios want to switch between PT10 and PT10. We can't squeeze behind equipment racks and unscrew and rescrew four db25 connectors. However, in most studios, getting to the back of the Mac Pro and switching the digilink cable between PCIe cards is as easy and common as switching a USB or Firewire cable back there.

[relaxo]

Originally Posted by Kasper

How are you running PT 11 now?

Out the Mac Pro via CoreAudio > 1/8" stereo output jack > Soundcraft mini mixer (for ipods, etc) and into our Cranesong Avocet monitoring systems.

Originally Posted by Kasper

What about optical out of the Mac?

It's my understanding that a Mac Pro's optical IO is only 2 channels each way. (Can anyone confirm this?) If it was enough IO channels, we could maybe start Logic in CoreAudio mode using our Accel cards > Avid HD IOs and run 8ch IO between the Mac Pro and the Avid HD IO just for monitoring and recording purposes.

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by relaxo

Out the Mac Pro via CoreAudio > 1/8" stereo output jack > Soundcraft mini mixer (for ipods, etc) and into our Cranesong Avocet monitoring systems.

Just get any Core Audio interface that has ADAT out.
You must have ADAT capability somewhere in the studio, no?
That gives you 8 channels on one cheap cable.

Im still a bit confused though .... are you hoping for TDM support in PT 11?
or just a way to simply run both with a minimum of switch-over hassle?


kasper

[relaxo]

Originally Posted by Kasper

Just get any Core Audio interface that has ADAT out.
You must have ADAT capability somewhere in the studio, no?
That gives you 8 channels on one cheap cable.

Yes, we do have stand-alone converters laying around with ADAT IO. However, again, it's my understanding that Mac Pros only have 2 channels of IO. We need at least 4 channels...8 or 16 optimal.

Originally Posted by Kasper

Im still a bit confused though .... are you hoping for TDM support in PT 11?

No, I do not expect TDM to ever run in PT11 of course. Most PT users would expect that PT11 could send CoreAudio IO through the Avid IO interfaces like you can in Logic using CoreAudio>Accel Core > Avid HD IO interface and are very surprised to learn that this capability, while enabled for Logic, etc, is not enabled in PT.

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by relaxo

Yes, we do have stand-alone converters laying around with ADAT IO. However, again, it's my understanding that Mac Pros only have 2 channels of IO. We need at least 4 channels...8 or 16 optimal.
....

You'll need a new Core Audio interface, with at least 1 ADAT out.
Plenty of them out there, some quite cheap.
Route that to your mixer or anything that has an ADAT in that can get to your monitoring chain.

The Mac will send multi channel if it sees a multi input on the other end.
Never tried it tho, it may be only a stream, AC3 and not assignable like regular i/o. Google it, look in the Apple support forums.

Avid's support of Core Audio through their hardware has always been shaky at best. I doubt it will improve.

kasper

[Bill Denton]

I don't know if this would be at all feasible, but it just hit me as a possibility...

I note you're a Mac guy and I'm a Windows guy. I'll tell you what I would try in Windows, and maybe you can "translate" it into Mac...

Go into Device Manager. That is a part of Windows that shows you every device connected to your computer. It allows you to add or upgrade drivers, but more importantly, it allows you to disable and enable devices.

If your TDM cards show up in Device Manager, disable them. Not "uninstall", just "disable".

If you can't get this far, my dastardly scheme will not work, so sorry, fuggedaboutit...

If you can get past the red writing , reboot your computer, start PT 11, and see if PT gets all whiney about "can't find hardware" or whatever.

In Pro Tools, try to set your hardware device to your built-in Mac hardware.

If that works, you can experiment with some other configurations and see if you can find anything that works for you.

And if smoke starts pouring out of your Mac, this post was written by someone who hijacked my user name....

In the vein of "smoke pouring out", if the above works, you might also try having a TDM card and an HD Native card in your machine, and alternately disabling/enabling one and the other. And again...if smoke starts pouring out of your Mac...