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  #1  
Old 01-29-2009, 03:25 PM
converted converted is offline
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Default Master fader over loaded on mixdown

OK,

I've been working on a mix in PT8

I've ensured that every channel in pt8 isn't cliping in the red throughout the whole mix

all levels are good in the mix

Now i want to add a master fader to i can use a differ plug in before bouncing down.

When i had the master fader its shows the levels are cliping,

will this be an issue when i bounce down?

I ensured all my faders were out of the red
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2009, 03:52 PM
guitardom guitardom is online now
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Default Re: Master fader over loaded on mixdown

its not any one fader causing it more than likely, it is the summing of them all that is causing it. best fix would be to pull EVERYTHING down a couple db at a time and check it. or a quick masking of it (not a fix) would be to put a limiter on the master fader and set it to brickwall, and no peaks will get by it.
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:55 AM
converted converted is offline
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Default Re: Master fader over loaded on mixdown

the thing is it sounds good, without the or without adding the master fader

i really wanted to avoid re setting all the mix levels + the tack has automation on it.

i'm suprised this happend because on a normal mixer if the indivual chanels arn't clipiing then the master wouldn't either
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Old 01-30-2009, 01:40 AM
bblue bblue is offline
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Default Re: Master fader over loaded on mixdown

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Originally Posted by converted View Post
i'm suprised this happend because on a normal mixer if the indivual chanels arn't clipiing then the master wouldn't either
This is not so. If you had four channels on a mixer, each of which outputs were just below clipping, the sum of the four together would be well above clipping. It's basic additive math and is true on any mixer, but more on some than others depending on how much hidden headroom is built in to the mix buss.

Guitardom is right -- you really should drop all your faders and automation by at least 4 db. It's pretty easy to do and as long as you use the exact amount on everything, the mix will not change. Use the ALL group for the mix faders, and cntrl-click on volume automation to the right of the last indicator point on each track to lower the automation baseline without changing the individual points within the song.

Also, the master level display is not pre-fader like the other controls usually are, it's post fader and will take into account any plug-in associated with it. But that may not necessarily show you the actual mix buss levels. The way to be sure of your buss levels, is to feed everything to an aux module as a Sub Master, and then associate it to the master. The pre-fader setting of the aux module will show you the level of the mix buss (assuming there are no plug-ins on it). If you see red indications, you need to back down on everything equally -- NOT turn down the submaster!

I usually start out with the submaster at +6 so my individual fader levels don't creep up so quickly and then back down to no less than 0 if needed.

--Bill
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2009, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: Master fader over loaded on mixdown

once i group all the faders together

how do i control the level of the group? do i add an aux channel to control the group ?

then add a master fader?
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  #6  
Old 01-30-2009, 03:19 AM
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TOM@METRO TOM@METRO is offline
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Default Re: Master fader over loaded on mixdown

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Originally Posted by converted View Post
i'm suprised this happend because on a normal mixer if the indivual chanels arn't clipiing then the master wouldn't either
Bblue is correct; I work on large professional recording console every day. A couple of hot (not overloaded) input modules will overdrive the busses easily. Understanding the gain path is critical for engineers. Even back in the dark ages (when I was in school) signal path and gain were fundamental. Do yourself a favor and don’t be lazy in this area.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: Master fader over loaded on mixdown

ok got the group thing,

but will this effect the bus levels etc, or levels going into inserts like compressors , eq
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:30 AM
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Default Re: Master fader over loaded on mixdown

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Originally Posted by converted View Post
once i group all the faders together

how do i control the level of the group? do i add an aux channel to control the group ?

then add a master fader?
Sorry if I wasn't clear. You are selecting the ALL mix group to gang all the faders together so you can reduce them by exactly the same amount. Watch any one of the DB displays at the bottom of a mix strip and adjust any fader to move them all and decrease that by 4 db. Then you can turn off the ALL group.

The amount you decrease doesn't have to be four, I just used that as an example, which might turn out to be pretty close in your case. Also, it's a nice round number that you should have no problem adjusting the automation down by the same amount.

All you're trying to accomplish with this step is reducing all signals driving the mix buss by a fixed amount. That way you gain some headroom but don't change your mix.

If you wanted to add a submaster, add a stereo aux next to master. Its output should be the same as master, but its input would be a buss assignment, any unused pair would do. For this example call it 1-2. Then set the outputs of all other faders that aren't already going to a buss, to buss 1-2. Now when your submaster is set to 0 db it is essentially not there (unity gain), but you'll see the mix buss levels on its vu indicators.

If you ever see the submaster fader indicators in the red, you must reduce all your mix faders by an equal amount until you are well below red. Note that I'm talking about red clipping indicators, not red on the actual vu's (PT8).

Does this make it clearer?

--Bill
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2009, 06:44 AM
Third Eye Studios Third Eye Studios is offline
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Default Re: Master fader over loaded on mixdown

Just turn your master fader down until it's not in the red anymore. Simple as that.
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2009, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: Master fader over loaded on mixdown

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Originally Posted by converted View Post
ok got the group thing,

but will this effect the bus levels etc, or levels going into inserts like compressors , eq
Faders and vu indication come after inserts (assuming you have your default set to pre-fader, which is normal). The only exception to this is the master fader. Its vu's come after the fader, and when you adjust the master you are actually controlling the level of the signal going TO the inserts. The output of the last insert feeds the master fader.

If your buss sends are set to post fader, they will be affected equally by the reduction. If they're set pre fader, they won't.

Also, I forgot to mention in the previous message, if you have a series of plug-ins on one fader, be sure to check each one that it is not clipping on its output, or receiving a clipped signal on its input from the plug-in preceding it.

--Bill
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