Building Orchestral Template, but PT Hangs

[massivekerry]

Originally Posted by falcowe

Sorry this is going to be a newb question but what are you talking about when you say scripts Michael and/or massivekerry? Obviously it has something to do with how the VI's function but I'm not clear what exactly this script is. (I am not a programmer :))

Scripting is an internal Kontakt feature that allows developers to do things “under the hood” beyond just triggering a sample per note. Things like round robins, legato transitions, in-patch program changes, performance-sensitive articulation switching are all thanks to scripts that tell the instruments what to do. A great example is any of the “Total Performance” string patches from Spitfire. You play quick and hard, it’s Spiccato, gently and it’s Sustain, Connected and it’s legato. All in “real-time”, while managing all of the samples for each articulation, dynamic level, round robins,, multiple microphone positions (additional samples) and any triggered CCs for dynamics, vibrato, etc. while every other thing in your session is running. It’s kind of like driving while talking on the phone, eating a bagel in one hand, a coffee in the other and driving with your knees. If there’s not much traffic, and you’re in a premium, smooth ride, you ...might... be okay. But try it on a packed freeway In a 10-year old beater with everyone doing 15 over the speed limit...

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by massivekerry

One (kind of separate but somewhat related) thing to say in favor of VEP is that the Decoupled instances do cut down Save times. I’ve seen big DAW-hosted-Kontakt-Instruments templates in PT, Cubase and Logic, and when you have a bunch of instances (or even a particular few heavily-scripted instances) the Save time is OB-SCENE.

Good point - yes save times are way too long unless VE Pro is decoupled. It’s just unworkable with a lot of Kontakt instances. That’s another reason why I don’t host in Pro Tools and use VE Pro.

[Rectifried]

Kontakt or omnispere or dive or or even its own mini grand ... Protools is abysmal to a freakish inept level in handling VI ...

if you want to deep dive in doing score go to VIcontrol forum/Sampletalk ... I lurked and a bit to get a handle on the craft of mock score and esp library’s .as it was less on YouTube then
. I think I saw one person once say they used pt to score .. many might a have a copy for delivery stems

But really ,no one used it .Nobody..

I Finally had to jump to Something else so I went Ableton ... logic and Cubase and digital performer are top 3 In Vi orch score world

Every year I think pt will handle it and ..... no,,
Putting time in on a working template and have the daw crap out is a (ahem ) drag ...Believe me
Watching yt vids of dozens of loaded VI with articulations and real time playing On other daws
Then sad trombone ...pt

Since you have a mac$$$$ Logic prob will be your best bet as I think it would / should be optimized for Apple-y love

Btw you were so generous during your nobody special Years helped me alot with my pcm96
And when I sold it once knowing harman might not update the drivers
Cheers

[Michael Carnes]

Moving along, I've managed to get everything I'm likely to need into a VEPro project. This is a first. RAM-wise, I'm up over 200GB. Pro Tools would mess the bed by the time I got to 60GB or so. So now I can load the VEPro project and hook up in Pro Tools (insert any other DAW name). The orchestra is large enough that I have to use a half-dozen instantiations in the project.

This brings up the issue of the thread-count per instantiation. This feels archaic: a little like screwing around with the core count in Pro Tools 10 (something I don't miss). VEPro suggests the possibility of turning on multithreading in Kontakt itself and keeping the per-instantiation thread count low.

Does anyone have experience with this? By the way, thanks for all the helpful comments.

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by Michael Carnes

Moving along, I've managed to get everything I'm likely to need into a VEPro project. This is a first. RAM-wise, I'm up over 200GB. Pro Tools would mess the bed by the time I got to 60GB or so. So now I can load the VEPro project and hook up in Pro Tools (insert any other DAW name). The orchestra is large enough that I have to use a half-dozen instantiations in the project.

This brings up the issue of the thread-count per instantiation. This feels archaic: a little like screwing around with the core count in Pro Tools 10 (something I don't miss). VEPro suggests the possibility of turning on multithreading in Kontakt itself and keeping the per-instantiation thread count low.

Does anyone have experience with this? By the way, thanks for all the helpful comments.

I’ve been messing with thread count per instance for years but always gone back to the default of two threads. Below that I get clicks and pops, above two threads CPU usage in PT starts going up exponentially. Two has always been the sweet spot for me. I have tried to spread the load of my “orchestra” across multiple VE Pro instances though.

I think it’s partly dependent on user workflow. How many instances of VE Pro in PT, how many instances of Kontakt per VE Pro instance and so on. VSL recommend keeping the VE Pro instance count low as you say but that gets tricky with a large template in the 100s of GBs. I’m tending to have 16 Kontakts per instance. I’ve not messed with Kontakt’s own multithreading much as I’ve never found it makes much difference in VE Pro.

I’ve found the single biggest variable is VE Pro’s buffer multiplier. The higher the multiple the more CPU efficient it gets although at the expense of latency. Before my new Mac Pro I’ve always had this set to x2 and with a PT buffer of 256, I personally found this manageable. That said I’m looking forward to pushing this on my 16 core.

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

I’ve been messing with thread count per instance for years but always gone back to the default of two threads. Below that I get clicks and pops, above two threads CPU usage in PT starts going up exponentially. Two has always been the sweet spot for me. I have tried to spread the load of my “orchestra” across multiple VE Pro instances though.

I think it’s partly dependent on user workflow. How many instances of VE Pro in PT, how many instances of Kontakt per VE Pro instance and so on. VSL recommend keeping the VE Pro instance count low as you say but that gets tricky with a large template in the 100s of GBs. I’m tending to have 16 Kontakts per instance. I’ve not messed with Kontakt’s own multithreading much as I’ve never found it makes much difference in VE Pro...

Thanks Dave. That's all very helpful input. Please be sure to post back (here or in a new thread) once you get down the road a ways with your new Mac.

[Sanctus]

Hi Michael and all,
I just wondered if this has settled for you? I have been having problems with Orchestral Tools hanging creating havoc for PT and Ariel in OT tells me it's probably my Glyph Thunderbolt where I run all my OT (and Spitfire/Komplete CE). However my problem is worse in that when I create a .mov file it sounds fine but when I upload it to Youtube, I have glitches. I have no problems with Spitfire or Kontakt but Sine player? Yes. Any advice would be welcome as I'm lamenting between OT, PT and Glyph.