Pro Tools Studio Hardware Inserts...

[Tao Jones]

... Delay Compensation, does it have it ? I left Pro Tools last year and wasn't going to renew my perpetual license. I was not aware of Pro Tools Studio until a couple days ago. I've switched over to a hybrid mixing setup and Pro Tools has been very difficult to work with so I started using something else. I sometimes miss the elegance and simplicity of Pro Tools for mixing, so I ask this question.



Thanks

[albee1952]

Hardware delay compensation has been part of Pro Tools for a while(I believe going all the way back to PT9), BUT, consider the following:
1-I don't have PT Studio to test(I use HD hardware)
2-the setting is input manually(in the IO setup section>Hardware Insert tab)
3-the proper setting MIGHT be dependent on the buffer setting(not an issue if you never change the buffer). Again, I can't verify.

Assuming you have an iLok and account, I would download the demo and test with your hardware.

[Dax Productions]

It works, but don't expect it to be 100% perfectly sample accurate. IE, great to throw a compressor or eq on a vocal or bass or something, but don't expect to setup a drum backbuss and have it work perfectly. it will be a comb filtery mess.

Had the same experience in Ultimate as well however.

[BScout]

Originally Posted by Dax Productions

It works, but don't expect it to be 100% perfectly sample accurate. IE, great to throw a compressor or eq on a vocal or bass or something, but don't expect to setup a drum backbuss and have it work perfectly. it will be a comb filtery mess.

Had the same experience in Ultimate as well however.

I can do it perfectly sample accurate on Ultimate. Depends a bit on the hardware (if it always is consistent with the delay down to the sample.)

And if not using a purely analogue insert, what the processing delay of the insert device is.

[Dax Productions]

Originally Posted by BScout

Depends a bit on the hardware.

I've lost my mind trying to set this up with Avid UAD, Focusrite, and Behringer interfaces. So I'd love to know your method for getting it locked in!

On all of them it seemed like the roundtrip was a moving target. So I'd get it totally locked in by entering the delay amount in the delay comp +/- thing in the mix window, work on my mix a bit more, only to find my drum comb filtering again!

[Dax Productions]

But OP for what its worth, it seems whatever delay comp was in ultimate is now in studio.

[BScout]

Originally Posted by Dax Productions

I've lost my mind trying to set this up with Avid UAD, Focusrite, and Behringer interfaces. So I'd love to know your method for getting it locked in!

On all of them it seemed like the roundtrip was a moving target. So I'd get it totally locked in by entering the delay amount in the delay comp +/- thing in the mix window, work on my mix a bit more, only to find my drum comb filtering again!

You enter it in the Hardware Inserts tab on I/O.
Not in the manual compensation.

Manual compensation is chasing a moving target. Drop a plugin somewhere else and the delays will change again.

I am set to perfect sample accuracy (can phase invert and nulls.) If running an analogue insert, loop output to input and measure with a sine way to the edge of the sample. Check after putting the delay in. Then drop whatever analogue hardware in between the output and input. As long as you stay at the same sample rate, the number won't change.
If using digital outboard, depending on what it is, you'll need to measure with the hardware in the loop. And for some digital hardware, delay changes depending on selection/configuration (like filters in use for some digital outboard eqs.)

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Dax Productions

I've lost my mind trying to set this up with Avid UAD, Focusrite, and Behringer interfaces. So I'd love to know your method for getting it locked in!

On all of them it seemed like the roundtrip was a moving target. So I'd get it totally locked in by entering the delay amount in the delay comp +/- thing in the mix window, work on my mix a bit more, only to find my drum comb filtering again!

Setting up hardware insert compensation is described in the Pro Tools Reference Guide. Are you following those directions?

You measured the round trip through the hardware insert?

What exact hardware insert devices did you have and what insert latency did you measure?

Hardware insert latencies will vary with sample rate and IO buffer size. Some complex (mostly digital) hardware may have variable latency. That will be explained in the product documentation.

Practice/test with straight through cables... guaranteed constant latency.

Practice/test hardware insert compensation with a trivial session with no plugins (and delay compensation turned off... to prove this has nothing to do with "delay compensation").

Make stuff as stupidly simple as possible to start with, e.g. disable/reset the UAD Console, (e.g. *high latency* UAD plugins on the console might be able to cause confusion).

This stuff absolutely works. If not you are almost certainly doing something wrong.

[Dax Productions]

Are you talking about this method:

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...e-Insert-Delay

I thought this was to find out the delay incurred by digital outboard you might be using that has inherent delay itself. Which is why the instructions say to consult the manual for the hardware to see if it tells you the delay.

I'm talking just putting a piece of analog gear like an 1176 or pultec on a hardware insert.

When I do this test on my current setup (Behringer umc1820, although I have tried with all the brands I've mentioned with similar results), with an otherwise empty session, the printed track actually shows up 32 samples AHEAD of the original audio. This says to me that Pro Tools is automatically attempting to compensate for the round trip but actually overcompensating. Close though. Close enough that I'd have no problem using it as long as its not running parallel with anything else, which would cause comb filtering.

Another issue... to actually have your compensation be sample accurate, wouldn't we have to input the delay amount in samples? A more precise measurement than milliseconds.

[Chevron]

I do not use Avid hardware and another method is to use something like Waves InPhase.

Duplicate the track with a HW insert, minus the insert. Send both to an Aux with one left, one right and add inPhase to the Aux. You can line up the HW waveform in InPhase and it will give you the delay in ms and samples, which you can then enter in Setup > IO > H/W Insert Delay or on the track itself.

Delay comp for HW inserts without Avid hardware is a moving target, sometimes you find it is on point and then it can move. I have found this can change in the same session from day to day even without adding or removing plugins.