New Mac - M1 vs Mac Pro 2019

[dominicperry]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

Where is this info at? I've heard all around how the firmware will not let you run older OS's but I've been able to boot into an older OS.

This video seems to show it is possible with DFU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-FsB2onSx0&t=468s

Video comments include:

“Mr. Macintosh
1 month ago
Hello Darryl, the new 2021 M1 Pro and Max can only install macOS Monterey and newer.“

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

Where is this info at? I've heard all around how the firmware will not let you run older OS's but I've been able to boot into an older OS.

This video seems to show it is possible with DFU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-FsB2onSx0&t=468s

You’ve been able to boot into an older Mac OS than what was current when the machine shipped? Care to show some screenshots or a video of your 2021 MBP doing that?

As mentioned above, that YouTube video makes no mention of downgrading the OS to Big Sur.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by Sardi

You’ve been able to boot into an older Mac OS than what was current when the machine shipped? Care to show some screenshots or a video of your 2021 MBP doing that?

As mentioned above, that YouTube video makes no mention of downgrading the OS to Big Sur.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well first, the MBP is like 5 weeks out from delivery. And maybe they have made it impossible to install.
But have they made it impossible to boot into an already configured HD with Big Sur.
My 5,1 came with I don't remember and I was able to boot into a previous version I already had.

All my machines I can still boot back. Some all the way back to Mountain Lion.

I've upgraded firmware and can still boot back.

Maybe these are different now. I expected something like with when Silicon and Big Sur came out but, if it sits in a box it sits in a box. Otherwise the next release is going to come out and it will be the same thing.

Maybe it won't install but I'm curious to see if it will boot into a previous version if on another disk.

And if you know WHY it WON'T, please share.

[audiolex1]

This is a cool video for 5,1 users:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fVjJ_FfhNY

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

Well first, the MBP is like 5 weeks out from delivery. And maybe they have made it impossible to install.

OK. But, you did say ‘but I’ve been able to boot into an older OS’ so the assumption was you were able to do it. Unsure why you would say that if you don’t even have the machine in your possession.

And if you know WHY it WON'T, please share.

Because there are no drivers. Without drivers, how does the SW work with the HW?

It has always been this way. You’ve been able to downgrade your Mac OS to eg. Mountain Lion as your machine came out after Mountain Lion was released and thus drivers are baked in to the OS to support it.


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[Darryl Ramm]

Your 5,1 is a very different story than modern Macs. And as you say "came with" which is likely not the OS X version it was first shipped with, that's the one that matters.

The issue is often practically because the Mac need later device drivers that the OS shipped with, but either way because Apple cripples thing so they don't work/can't install. And now with T2 encryption/security booting off an external drive is a whole other set of issues. Your experiences on a old 5,1 Mac is awfully irrelevant, time to listen to folks warning you of issues.

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Your 5,1 is a very different story than modern Macs. And as you say "came with" which is likely not the OS X version it was first shipped with, that's the one that matters.

The issue is often practically because the Mac need later device drivers that the OS shipped with, but either way because Apple cripples thing so they don't work/can't install. And now with T2 encryption/security booting off an external drive is a whole other set of issues. Your experiences on a old 5,1 Mac is awfully irrelevant, time to listen to folks warning you of issues.

Okay. Fair enough. But what needs to be said is, since it apparently is the case, the next gen is going to be the case as well.
So, I have a 3k laptop that will work when the next one doesn't. Might as well test it.

The T2 chip doesn't stop booting off externals. Seems to work for this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cblyGVFcFn4

I appreciate the warnings, I am new to the newer M1s. But it is going to be the way to go. So, I might as well use the time with some testing, have a working Powerful device before Apple introduces the 32/48/64 core versions which I am guessing will have a little more compatibility as they leave Intel.

Its almost like the Intel from IBM except that took like 5 years plus. At the rate of now verses then, its a year.

Rather be ready then waiting. As far as drivers, I see your point. Doesn't mean it won't work. Maybe it won't. If you consider the Monterey drivers vs the Big Sur Drivers verses the hardware. Did they change the hardware that much?
Or are the drivers just different? I mean how often do we not update drivers and things continue to work.

Maybe how the OS works with the drivers is a bigger difference.

I still stand by my statement. Putting your money in to an Intel based Mac is not a good investment. If you want intel, go Windows 11 and good luck with that.
A good friend of mine, who has always been a PC user, is moving to MAC because of how bad W11 is and Microsoft.

I get it. This transition, and I'm most likely wrong, is going to sting in the transition but I'll already be ready.
It will be beta for a little while.
I also know people who went with M1 mini's before they were "qualified" for Big Sur and haven't had a ton of issues.

Hey Game of CRAPS.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

As far as drivers, I see your point. Doesn't mean it won't work. Maybe it won't. If you consider the Monterey drivers vs the Big Sur Drivers verses the hardware. Did they change the hardware that much?
Or are the drivers just different? I mean how often do we not update drivers and things continue to work.

Maybe how the OS works with the drivers is a bigger difference.

I’m not sure you’re understanding how it works.

Big Sur will have drivers for any hardware that was released prior to it being available. It can not have drivers for a computer that has not been made.

Doesn’t matter how different the hardware is. If it’s different, the Mac OS won’t recognise it.

Updating drivers for a sound card is entirely different. Here, you’re talking about the same interface so the drivers will continue to work unless they’re incompatible with a Mac OS update.

I also know people who went with M1 mini's before they were "qualified" for Big Sur and haven't had a ton of issues.

This doesn’t make any sense. M1 Mac Mini’s shipped with Big Sur. All the initial M1 machines (Mini, MBP, MBA) work with (and only with) Big Sur and higher.

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[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

The T2 chip doesn't stop booting off externals. Seems to work for this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cblyGVFcFn4
.

I did not say T2 prevented external drive booting, I said it introduced another whole set of issues… starting with the default is booting off external drives *is* disabled. Owners with T2 macs that are not locked down/who are not locked out of the recovery menu can change this setting. In some work and education environments folks will be locked out. In others users will still get this wrong/struggle with what to do. Including folks who f*** themselves by setting passwords then forgetting them. Is that a good enough start for “is a whole other set of issues…”?

I don’t need to listen to some idiot on YouTube droning on about how to install macOS to learn how to do any of this. And the singular important point about enabling boot on an external drive from the recovery menu could be made quickly, I could not even quickly see where he said that. What an utter waste of time.

Maybe more listening and less googling for YouTube videos, folks giving you advice here really don’t need these tutorials. I really just worry that folks need to be careful here. There are lots of changes and things going on in the Apple Silicon transition, this immediate discussion involves issues that have existed before, with new ones. A lot of stuff that will let people burn themselves if they are not careful.

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

I did not say T2 prevented external drive booting, I said it introduced another whole set of issues… starting with the default is booting off external drives *is* disabled. Owners with T2 macs that are not locked down/who are not locked out of the recovery menu can change this setting. In some work and education environments folks will be locked out. In others users will still get this wrong/struggle with what to do. Including folks who f*** themselves by setting passwords then forgetting them. Is that a good enough start for “is a whole other set of issues…”?

I don’t need to listen to some idiot on YouTube droning on about how to install macOS to learn how to do any of this. And the singular important point about enabling boot on an external drive from the recovery menu could be made quickly, I could not even quickly see where he said that. What an utter waste of time.

Maybe more listening and less googling for YouTube videos, folks giving you advice here really don’t need these tutorials. I really just worry that folks need to be careful here. There are lots of changes and things going on in the Apple Silicon transition, this immediate discussion involves issues that have existed before, with new ones. A lot of stuff that will let people burn themselves if they are not careful.

Alright, then instead of going off on something I said, why not show a constructive way of how to do it so if some idiot forgets his password.
I'm not some idiot.

I'm not working in some "educational" environment either, and you are assuming I have no clue. While I may be newer to the M1 and the newer OS don't assume I am an idiot. And if I am making as mistake proudly show me where I can go wrong.

Maybe look closer and be less defensive and you will see who I am.

And the only advice I was given was, return the laptop BTW. Hardly advice. Granted I am wrong about down grading. But I can still afford to buy one, and use it for whatever testing in the mean time.

Geez, wouldn't that be a benefit?