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  #1  
Old 01-17-2005, 03:14 PM
ryan de topanga ryan de topanga is offline
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Default SCSI vs Firewire vs SATA

Coming from the Old School (PT 5.3.1. HD3, OS 9.2, Dual 1 MHZ G4) I have used the ATTO card with 2 SCSI busses going to a Rorke Data 4 drive enclosure (2 drives per bus). With this setup I have had no problems with 96K sessions with a lot of tracks/edits and no problems with a 96 track 48K session (live concert).

As I am considering upgrading my system to a G5 HD3 Accel, I will no longer have a 4th PCI slot for a SCSI card. As I do a lot of projects at once, I need to use removeable media, so SATA seems impractical. What's the best solution out there? Should I just go for a HD2 Accel (and lose the extra processing) in order to have a slot for the SCSI card, or have you DUC experts found a way to get greeat track counts out of FireWire?
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2005, 03:20 PM
KingFish KingFish is offline
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Default Re: SCSI vs Firewire vs SATA

The 7200 RPM internal SATA drives on a G5 will by far out perform Firewire for sustained data rate transfer. (you can order a 10,000rpm SATA for a second internal drive for audio)

I'm working with a 68 track session off the internal SATA drive of the G5 HD2 Accel, right now, with no problems, and I suspect I've lots more headroom / track count to play with.

I generally track to the internal 160gb SATA, and dump my work on my firewire drive at the end of the day when I leave the studio.
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- MacPro 6,1 Intel Xeon E5 2.7 GHz 12-Core 128 GB 1066 MHz DDR3
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2005, 07:41 PM
rockridge98 rockridge98 is offline
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Default Re: SCSI vs Firewire vs SATA

There were removable hot-swap SATA products (external and internal removable) at the Mac expo
from many vendors.
I've had good luck in the past (non-SATA products) with granitedigital.com and wiebetech.com, do a google search to find others. If using an external removable you either need to add a SATA PCI
card with an external connector or figure some other way to feed a SATA cable from
the internal controller to the outside of the box.
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2005, 11:48 PM
ryan de topanga ryan de topanga is offline
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Default Re: SCSI vs Firewire vs SATA

Thanks, Rockridge. I did some research. Wiebetech, Granite and MacGurus have SATA hotswap kits, but they all need a PCI host card. Weibtech's internal/external 8 drive expander needs a host card, and Granite's, all external system needs a host card and a second, empty PCI slot above it to feed the cables through.

How can I get great performance, removeability and a HD3 Accel system in a G5?. Is Firewire 800 it? Or am I off to an expansion chassis, and all the headaches associated with that?
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2005, 07:51 AM
rockridge98 rockridge98 is offline
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Default Re: SCSI vs Firewire vs SATA

Quote:
Thanks, Rockridge. I did some research. Wiebetech, Granite and MacGurus have SATA hotswap kits, but they all need a PCI host card. Weibtech's internal/external 8 drive expander needs a host card, and Granite's, all external system needs a host card and a second, empty PCI slot above it to feed the cables through.

How can I get great performance, removeability and a HD3 Accel system in a G5?. Is Firewire 800 it? Or am I off to an expansion chassis, and all the headaches associated with that?
I haven't stepped up to a G5 yet, so I haven't researched this, but if the G5 is anything like the
G4, there would be an unused drive bay in the front of the machine that you can mount
a removable drive carrier into (same form factor as the optical drive) so you could swap
drives from the front w/o opening the machine. Any
G5 experts care to comment?
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  #6  
Old 01-18-2005, 08:00 AM
cmaynes cmaynes is offline
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Default Re: SCSI vs Firewire vs SATA

The G5 has no provision for mounting a removable bay (without a LOT of metal work) I suppose it is possible to do so but I would think it impractical for just about everyone (with the obvious voiding of warranty). SCSI seems pretty dead, I think if you really need to move stuff to removable drives, a better solution is to use a network with an older G4 (w/gigabit ethernet) where the removable bay could be attached someplace away from your control room. The SATA drive performance is more than good- I would say that it really is much better (and quieter) than any SCSI situation I have seen.

I have to say that I have not used SCSI in over 2 years and as far as I am concerned- good riddance!

YMMV

charles maynes
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2005, 11:32 AM
KingFish KingFish is offline
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Default Re: SCSI vs Firewire vs SATA

Firewire 800 is yet to be fully supported, as it sits now, FW 400 is the supported removable protocol.

You'll be fine, really.... don't worry about the expansion chasis until it really counts (like you're adding process / accel cards to your system)

I've not really put the FW 400 to the test in an "Extreme" scenario, however, I've got a G5 with LE sitting beside me right now, as I type this, so....

I created a new session on FW, created 32 tracks, just popped it into record, and the "disk" meter in system usage, is flitiing at about 20% - it's been running since i opened, and began replying to this thread... it's at 9 minutes now.... I just stopped it... and hit play.... disk usage seems about the same.

I really think you should try the firewire scenario first, save your self some potential headaches.

Seriously stress test it with no clients in the room, load your most intensive session onto the FW, edit it, add plugs, enable another 16 teacks, and pop er into record.

If it doesn't slow you down.... then you're set, if it does, then think about some of these other solutions.

FW is working well for me, I've found a place that sells IDE FW enclosures, for around $60.00 US, that I can put any IDE drive into. From the days of the IDE swappable trays, and even some recent projects that have been "in the works " for over 2 years now, I've got 11 or 12 IDE drives on the shelf, that I can now Swap in and out of this enclosure.

it works so well, I've bought 10 of them over the last while, and most of those drives, own their own enclosure.
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- MacPro 6,1 Intel Xeon E5 2.7 GHz 12-Core 128 GB 1066 MHz DDR3
- HDX II Sonnet xMacPro Server
- 16x16 HD i/o x 6
- PT 2018.10
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- ProTools Dock / PT Control
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  #8  
Old 01-19-2005, 09:24 PM
thothprod thothprod is offline
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Default Re: SCSI vs Firewire vs SATA

this is suppose to be the most slammin Sata drive out there and my understanding is the G5 is pre configred to be able to use it.............
check it out........

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=65


Good Luck!!!


ThothProd
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  #9  
Old 01-20-2005, 11:33 AM
ryan de topanga ryan de topanga is offline
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Default Re: SCSI vs Firewire vs SATA


Good info about the WD 10K drive.

So, If I want to use all three of my PCI slots for Digi Hardware (HD3 Accel). I guess the best I can hope for is 2 internal SATA drives, with one of them, of course, being the system drive. Coming from the old school, I never record on my system drive. Having said that, have you people done this? I expect the best idea would be to partition the system drive, and record on the second partition.

BTW, here's some interestinf SCSI/Firewire (800) and SATA tests that I found online. Done with a 4 drive raid (which, I believe, Digi does not support). SCSI wins until the drives fill up past a certain point, then SATA is better

http://www.barefeats.com/hard35.html
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  #10  
Old 01-20-2005, 02:13 PM
thothprod thothprod is offline
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Default Re: SCSI vs Firewire vs SATA

very interesting link....thanks....if only PT supported Fibre Channel drives ...they can be mounted externally and I have seen them that run at 15k....but my understanding is you might run into trouble trying to run them with PT...althogh they run off a PCI-X card installed in the computer...but I'm no gearhead and don't see why they wouldn't work in PT.....oh well....

Thothprod
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