Digi hardware - bizarre behavior - Digi you will lose this market share

[albee1952]

I'm sure this won't sway your opinion, but half the HD studios in Nashville work at 48K, as do most of us here. If 96K is mandatory for your work, then LE is simply not the best course.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by andre67

1) You say I am angry, do not mistake frustration for anger too different worlds.
2) You say a must check my facts you seem to not have done that, I clearly mention ADAT 48KHz limitation (ADAT),

Please do not make comments if you do not read my post, just to merely post something here!

I can only use the C24 on a LE system Via a Digi002 or 003 via ADAT which is not update as I would still sit with the ADAT limitation for example Digi002 at 48KHz(ADAT). Even your new 003 Rack+ Factory have the ADAT 48KHz limitation.

Please do not mistaken recording at 96KHz for ADAT 48Khz, as the same thing, I clearly mention this in my post.

your facts are off. c24 works via ethernet. there is NO converters in the c24, and NO connection to the adat input. c24 has VERY distinct sections of the i/o. the mic pre section with analog outs, monitoring section, all analog, and the pro tools control surface, NO i/o on that. not sure if it will work w mpowered, works w le just fine.

another thought, the whole 44.1/88.2 etc. you really need to analyze your situation. a great mix sounds great at 44.1. 96k will not save a bad mix. is it worth the extra drive space and system resources? some older plugs or vst's wrapped will not be compatible at this sample rate. how much of your music ends up being hammered with lossy compression and ending up mp3, or will that be the only distribution format?? does the client care???? are you really working and it will make a difference or demo'ing in your bedroom hoping for global domination??? is it just a **** measuring contest for you???? just some thoughts to consider...

the "factory" in the 003 title means nothing but more plugins, it is nothing fancy.

[sunburst79]

ADAT Optical = 8 channels at 48K. Its a standard thats almost as old as MIDI. Digi has nothing to do with this standard.

ADAT Optical (SMUX) = 4 Channels at 96K. Every interface I have seen that supports the ADAT standard at sample rates above 48K drops the channel bandwidth by 1/2.

ADAT Optical (SPDIF or Toslink) = 2 channels at 48-196K.

The Digi stuff uses the actual ADAT and SPDIF standards which covers the probably about 75-80 percent of the recording scenarios out there. I don't know anyone that records at over 48K on a regular basis. Would it be nice if the 003 would give you 4 channels of SMUX as a option? Sure!

But very rarely does a company revise their existing hardware to add a feature that the majority of their users could care less about and may never use. Should they incorporate SMUX into the next generation of hardware? Absolutely!..... Unless its going to significantly increase the cost, push other features out and not be used by 95% of the users.

And you still need a SMUX compatable optical pre's. Most of the lightpipe pres I see offer 8 channels at 48K. There are plenty of higher end pres that offer 2 channels at <48K but again these use the SPDIF format which Digi covers. I'm not saying Digi couldn't or shouldn't up their game but I be willing to bet that they've done some market research and weighed what the majority of users will actually use.

I would be suprised if Sweetwater or any other large retailer is selling 10-20 Lightpipe pres for every ISA 428 or other high end optical preamp they sell. If you look at what LE users are buying its probably 95% inexpensive lightpipe pres.

I have a Presonus Fire Studio Lightpipe. It will do 32 channels @ 48K or 16 Channels @ 96K. Guess what? None of the common light pipe pres go to 96K...... I bought it for inputs not SMUX support. By the time you have bought the Fire Studio Lightpipe AND enough converters to feed it 16 96K channels you could have bought a 96IO or 192. If you routinely need to record at 88-96K Digi makes some great systems for that too....and if you start pricing the actual hardware that you need to to achieve the track counts they are reasonably priced.

If you routinely need to record more than 10 channels @ 88-96K perhaps you need something other than PTLE?

Personally I would like to see a 003 with 8Pres, SMUX support, or something like ADAT bridge with no pres, or a 003 with a optional fader pack but its unlikely that any of this will show up until theres new hardware.

[deskman]

adat at 48kHz is the way to go, get over it!

[Dism]

Originally Posted by ejwells

Andre,
The 48 kHz ADAT limitation isn't anything new.
Bitching about it is like buying a two door car, then bitching that it only has 2 doors.

No wai! I demand a 4 door Corvette! I paid good money for that car, I should be able to have as many doors as I like!

[YoRugMan]

Isn't it usually the case that 96khz is only used when scoring movie soundtracks ?

.

[Dism]

Originally Posted by andre67

That fact that you happy with 4 XLR, that is your prerogative , do impose your view on other which do not share the same needs as you.
That fact that you do not see my point and my needs, I am not going to write a book for you and attempt to make you understand, is just fine, this post was not intended for you. However it is for like minded people, why are you so preoccupied with my post?........we clearly do not share the same requirements and or needs.

Logically why do you Think Digi create more then just what you use?...for example Digi003 and a Mbox to a Mbox mini, surely I should not spell this out for yea!!?
If the world was happy with just 4 XLR's why would others make bigger controllers?



You must be an Digi employee, why would you bother with this so much?
The fact that you do not get this and or see this move on, this is not for you.



Man, what can I say to this........you make it your problem why did you start this in the first place?
Again I say it is your prerogative NOT to reply to this and NOT to get into this.
This forum is for all Digi clients that fact that you do no like what I say, is your problem, just as it is a free world for other to say what they want.
No person or people can make another see or even understand if that individual do not want to see the facts. I suggest move on you do not get this clearly, as you said it is not your problem SO WHY DO YOU MAKE IT YOURs?....are you a DIGI employee?.......this is the only logically explanation I have for your bizarre involvement?

Just... wow.

So, according to your logic... I am a totalitarian, book burning, lie preaching, Digidesign employee?

Yes, my "prerogative" is 4 XLRs and everyone MUST only use those or else SUFFER THE FATE OF ETERNAL CONDEMNATION IN A FIERY PIT OF DEATH AND FIRE.... AND BURNING. DID I MENTION FIRE?!

I am very aware that Digidesign creates multiple devices, this is why I also have an MBox 2 to go with my 003R. It's hard to stick my 003 in my backpack, so this works out well for me.

I also do consider this "my concern" because people are voicing "facts" about Digidesign that simply aren't true... so when people come on these forums screaming about things they don't even understand... yeah I make it my problem, because I care about people not getting misinformation on these forums. Man, I am a horrible horrible person. (insert another fire/burning reference here)

I never said there is only one purpose for anything, I simply said that there are many of us who do not share your frustration. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean everyone doesn't like it. It's getting pretty clear to me, by the other responses that I'm not far off the point, either. But... I guess that just means we're all heretics and Digidesign employees.

I do use my 03D via ADAT, but again... as I said before, I don't often record past 48k, and when I do, I tend to only require 1 or 2 mics. Thus, I will use one of the 8 ANALOGUE outs instead of ADAT. And since the 03D's optical is limited to 20/48... I rarely use the ADAT at all, since I often don't need more than 8 ins at a time.

I am simply giving examples of how I use my gear. There have been plenty of other responses as well... (what was that about using HD in 48k?! BLASPHEMY!) are we all just pandering to Digidesign to piss you off?

No.

We are trying to explain to you that we all knew what we were getting into when we bought our hardware. I suggest you do the same. Saves a lot of headaches and heretics in the future.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by andre67

I was looking at the 003 Rack+ Factory and still wondering why there is a limitation with the ADAT still only at only 48 KHz, the competition out there are up to 96 KHz and 196 KHz, why it that Digi keeps, releasing hardware that is outdated compare to what is out there.

Better I/O for the LE line has been a very heated subject over the past 10 years on the forum. I myself would also like to see this finally evolve and expand. The ADAT format needs to go in my opinion. MADI and AES/EBU are the way to go for higher sample rates.

This whole thing becomes fishy to me it does not make sense, I hurt the excuses regarding the ADAT limitation on Digi hardware and others, sadly to say this do not fly with me anymore,

It's definitely frustrating. The tiered product line is what puts a lot of these, "makes no sense" things into place unfortunately.

Digi wake up and smell the roses, I have said this a few years ago, that this day would come. So all you attempting to do are just attempting to keep and not paving the way with innovation just merely keeping up, with regards to hardware this is just is not the case.

In many areas, I see them far behind myself. It will probably take almost a complete stop of HD sales to "wake up and smell the roses" in my opinion. It very well may be, "too little, too late". Hopefully not, as we are all here because we do like using PT.

Look at your Digi003 still only four XLR’s, so look at how you improved on the Digi002……….can you really say it is an improvement?

The M-aduio line for a very brief time span did work with the ProFire lightbridge which gave it full access to the 34 in/36 out of the hardware so we know it can easily be done. It's the tiered product line that prevents expansion with their native line and that's what it comes down to unfortunately.

You have the lovely C24, however this do not bridged the gap, PTS LE or even M-powered can’t use it at all.

The C/24 works just fine with PT LE. The original was such junk that I have no intention on ever investing in a digi hardware controller again. At the end of the day, it doesn't make a mix sound better.

It looks to me you protecting your AD systems; why else would this bizarre behavior exist, how else would explain this logically?

Definitely. A tiered product line will exhibit this type of behavior.

Just remember you cannot stop progress you either on board or you will go out of business. Being in a position of catching up is not a good place to be in.

I'll have to agree. The competition has even made the die-hard fanboys such as myself start to at least look elsewhere. I have to set up another small project studio in another country. Very realistic business decisions will be made on the recording gear purchased for it's purpose.

You need to have you C24 and a smaller version be compatible and working with LE and M-powered systems, if you do not, or do this soon you will lose this market share,

As mentioned above, the C24 works just fine with LE. I wouldn't fall for the placebo/sugar pill effect with controllers. I had a $7000 multi button/multi wheeled mouse(C/24) hooked up to LE that at the end of the day, never made one single mix sound any better.

your AD systems is out dated as well, no real invasions over the years, so here too you have a serious problem.

I agree. I myself would like to see faster advancement of their native line I/O and yes, HD is really showing it's age. It's something I definitely wont be looking into for the new project studio that's for sure. It will all be native but the limitations of the LE I/O is a huge barrier and will more than likely not be chosen in the final budget.

You even have more flexibility on your M-powered systems then you have with LE, come on Digi do you not see what is happening around you in the world and with other companies and technologies out there?

I think they do see it. I just hope it doesn't end up being too little, too late. I like PT Native. It's paid the bills, but even the problems and shortcomings of HD have made me look to other solutions for any future purchases.

As far as 96k goes, it does make a difference when mixing in the box in one very important area that many over look, and that's aliasing in the plug-ins themselves at lower sample rates. This can be overcome at 48k and lower by being picky with your plug-in choice. It's probably not much of an issue with modern plug-ins though. 192k was nothing but marketing that did an absolute crash and burn.

I see no harm with anyone posting feedback. Good or bad, frustrated rants or fanboy praise, it's still valid customer feedback.

Shane

[TOM@METRO]

Even when using HD, I and those I know, primarily use 44.1 or 48 KHz / 24bit, and it hasn't kept us from selling projects or retaining clients. I say this only to point out that if AVID takes a dive, I don't think it will be over this. I do agree though that in a perfect world all of the useable sample rates would be available on all configurations.

We do need a new Native hardware line.

[andre67]

Originally Posted by Shan

The C/24 works just fine with PT LE. The original was such junk that I have no intention on ever investing in a digi hardware controller again. At the end of the day, it doesn't make a mix sound better.

Shane

How does the C24 connect with an LE system?........I have asked this before and others have said via my Digi002, if the C24 do not have ADAT how do you connect it to an LE system?........look at my post and you will see this.

Originally Posted by Shan

I see no harm with anyone posting feedback. Good or bad, frustrated rants or fanboy praise, it's still valid customer feedback.
Shane

Thank you!!!