Suggestion for digi to keep dominating market

[brokemusician3]

Since multiple processors are here and threatening the companies pro line status quo, come out with a box that has unlimited tracks, uses native processors, has delay compensation, and has 8 excellent sounding I/O converters with unlimited expansion capabilities and then charge 3 grande for it. You can still milk the tdm for awhile, still offer mbox & 002 Le systems, but have an in between system that everyone keeps complaining about not having thus maintaining your dominant status in the market. Then it will truely be a pro tools world.

Because 20k for computer based recording aint happening no more, them gravy days are comming to an end.

[jeremyroberts]

>> Because 20k for computer based recording aint happening no more

Is this a troll post?

Until there's a better mousetrap, there are MANY reasons why professionals choose to use HD systems.

AFAIK, the "better mousetrap" for professionals doesn't exist (yet).

Every few weeks someone yells, "chicken little, you can do it with a native system..." but the truth is that you can't. Not yet. Maybe someone will build such a system -- but until then, we (professionals) will spend the $20k (I actually spent considerable more than that on my system) so that we can be competitive with million dollar studios. And for under $100k, we can compete with the "old money" large format studio.

We're not talking band-in-a-box here.

If you don't need it, don't knock it.

But don't suggest that working pros can survive without the features...

[trakbytes]

Most of brokemusician's posts have been anti-TDM, despite claiming to own a Mix+++ in one of his posts. (Why is he now brokemusician3 instead of 2?) I can somewhat understand his point of view, as I decided earlier this year that I no longer needed my Mix3 system at home, and sold it all to someone who is still working and making money with it. I went with another manufacturer's DAW for my home music projects, as I didn't want to support the artificial track and timecode limitations imposed on PT LE nor did I like Digi's LE interfaces. And for what I use it for at home, it is satisfactory. But it is not nearly as powerful as the Pro Tools HD Accel system I use daily at work. And that is the key word; work.

If I were to hang out a shingle and go independent, I would want the best tools for the job, and for me, Pro Tools HD is currently that tool. Is it over-priced? For my playing around with at home, surely. For a working studio, day-in, day out, two shifts, 20 hours a day? Not a bit. The features and reliability are unequaled for the price. Plus Pro Tools, like it or not, has become the new 2" tape standard of interchangeability. You can take your session to just about any professional studio and make it work. So for work, Pro Tools works.

So brokemusician3, if you don't think PT HD TDM is worth the money, vote with your wallet and don't buy it. There are other alternatives, and I hope you find one that suits your needs on your brokemusician's paycheck. There are plenty of working pro's who rely on Pro Tools daily for their livelihood. While Digi/Avid may sometimes be the company we love to hate because of their quest for maximum profitability (isn't that what the free market is about?), most of us on this forum still love Pro Tools for it's functionality. There is no need to repeatedly debate whether native is as good as TDM, because that is an individual decision based on need and budget. Find something you like and quit bagging on TDM. They both work, and they both have a place in the market.

Bob

[Chris Lambrechts]

couldn't agree more with the opinions of Jeremy and Bob and I would like to addd only one thing .... and you can hate me for it or not :

I think to some point digidesign is co-responsable of current state of the music industry. Be it not directly digidesign themselves but more the entire computer based recording revolution that brought studio gear to our homes. Digidesign as a pioneer in that industry needs to realise that imo.

I could go on for hours and write books about how I feel about giving more tracks to LE and then everyone who wants more tracks and options in LE can come back with reasons why they shoud etc etc ... and they are often right too looked from their point of view.

My point of view however , idealistic as it probably is, is that the gap between pro (TDM if you like) and LE (pro-sumer / consumer) should NOT be closed. It should stay for economical reasons.

Sorry if that sounds discriminating but why should our business be treated different then any other business that requires a certain standard of both quality and skills. Try starting up a small grocery store, I doubt that you can do that with 20k, let alone the fact that in most countries you need a certain business degree to be allowed to do it. Everyone with a Mbox and a laptop on the other hand seems to be whining about the fact that life isn't fair because they don't dispose of the same tools a TDM system has.

[lemix]

Although I do fully agree with Jeremy and Bob, a similar idea has just been discussed between some friends here.
A dedicated Digidesign core system. Using the Mactel architecture, built in an expandable rack mount enclosure, running either Mac or Windows OS.
The unit would have support for both PCI and PCIe cards and come standard with a single TDM corecard, expandable to 4 additional process cards.
It will support Ethernet, Usb, FW 400/800, even SCSI.
Three head display, keyboard, mouse, of course. Le users could run their existing hardware, even utilizing the onboard DSP, before they step up to the optional process cards.
I could even see a sync/midi IO as optional card add ins.
Price ?? 7.5 K'ish..

cheers,

[brokemusician3]

My point of view however , idealistic as it probably is, is that the gap between pro (TDM if you like) and LE (pro-sumer / consumer) should NOT be closed. It should stay for economical reasons.

Sorry if that sounds discriminating but why should our business be treated different then any other business that requires a certain standard of both quality and skills. Try starting up a small grocery store, I doubt that you can do that with 20k, let alone the fact that in most countries you need a certain business degree to be allowed to do it. Everyone with a Mbox and a laptop on the other hand seems to be whining about the fact that life isn't fair because they don't dispose of the same tools a TDM system has.

Wow when the elitists start to feel their cling to power slipping away you get quite a knee jerk reaction. Your'e all wearing Emporers new clothes though if you think even the slightest gap will exist within the next couple years, studio owners in the 80's felt the same way when Adats came out.

By the way I happen to own a full blown 30k TDM system and don't regret purchasing it one bit though it's practically disposable now, however that was 6 years ago when 30k was a steal for what TDM did versus everything else. Digi will never again see me pour that kind of money into one of their DAW's again, there's no justification for it anymore, that's my point.

It's very much like the death of 2" tape which I also have by the way, there just isn't enough elitists out there to support the manufacturing of 2 inch tape.

Digi has been very intelligent at keeping market share in the past, and they are definitely at a cross road right now. Thank goodeness they have more buisness sense than most of you!

[EGS]

>> But don't suggest that working pros can survive without the features...

I see both sides of this old debate. A high-end project studio (armed with a native system) ABSOLUTELY has "the features" to survive as a working pro. Bigger studios that understand this reality can better adapt to project studio presense. There is a market for both levels, HD and native. Working pros survive because they know how to engineer, and because they know the business.

[bigbadhenchman]

It's very much like the death of 2" tape which I also have by the way, there just isn't enough elitists out there to support the manufacturing of 2 inch tape.

There's a big difference between elitists and people who care about good sounding audio.

[MachineGun]

Digidesign takes for granted their "dominance" in the market. their management is arrogant and self serving! they alienate their customers - take the MP4 debacle, and the PCIe situation. people are VERY TIRED of the update game, and many many would not buy into the next round! Native power is gaining, native latency is coming down rapidly! NATIVE = CHEAPER! Digi is becoming RIPE for the fall!! however you look at it, Digi will one day soon be on the short end of the stick, and the Digi Fanboys will choose to sink or abandon ship

[networker]

Calling people elitists just because they have a different opinion than you is unfortunate.
Bob is ABSOLUTELY correct.

When computers get to the point where native systems can be as bulletproof as PT HD, and when it is possible to get there within one brand or cooperating brands so that when things go wrong you don't have multiple manufacturers pointing at each other, I expect Digi to be there. (is that sentence long enough?)

It will happen when the comps can handle the load. In the meantime, the systems that are out there now working native can do a lot of good, but there is a huge difference between "hobbyist" and working pro. I do know that some Hobbyists think that they are pros and some are to an extent, but when it comes to bigger budget projects with time constraints, real release dates and tons of pressure, that is where the hard drive meets the road.