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  #1  
Old 03-04-2023, 08:42 PM
my-name-is-thanos my-name-is-thanos is offline
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Default guitar volume

So my guitars were recorded at different volumes throughout the years.
How do I make it to where my volumes are all at the same level in all songs?
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2023, 01:21 PM
nednednerb's Avatar
nednednerb nednednerb is offline
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Default Re: guitar volume

Two things about loudness:

1) Peak: the loudest moment in one song might be -3.0 dBFS, so what if you make every track normalized to -3.0 dBFS? What if there is one transient attack louder than rest in one recording? Then, -3.0 dBFS normalization means the main parts of your recording are lower than you expect.

versus

2) Persistence: normalizing to the average loudness, or 'dB RMS', or how loud things are over time, MIGHT be worth considering. However, what if the RMS of one recording is lower than you expect, but it has a high peak? When you normalize to RMS, and the RMS goes up, so will the dBFS peak, OVER 0.0 dBz!!! That means you'll get a red meter, digital clip, nasty distortion likely.

What does this mean?

You probably want to learn more about peak vs persistence and about "loudness" in general. There are some rather simple plug-ins which will "loudness normalize" but since you have the originals, which are probably getting mixed in PT (yes??), I would probably start by changing the input level into the compressor on your guitar tracks, and match by ear and loudness meter.

Also have to remember, even if your WAV files are all equal loudness, the rest of the song parts and the master bus might be changing the relative level of things.
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>> me: nednednerB //
||main gig: editing audio voiceovers & testing software | 2nd gig: music software tutoring | hobby: electronic music //
||software: Sonoma 14.2 | PT Studio 2023.12 | Ableton Live 11 | iZotope RX, Ozone, Neutron | Arturia Pigments | Auto-Tune | Dubler2 //
||system: iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020) 10-Core-i9 | 128GB-DDR4 | 5700-XT-16GB | OWC Thunderbolt Hub and Thunderbolt 3 Dock //
||devices: RME Babyface Pro FS | Focusrite Clarett 2Pre | some AT mics | SM58 | Ableton Push 2 | Sennheiser HD 600 HP // Onkyo TX-8220 SR
||automation: SoundFlow | Stream Deck+ | Keyboard Maestro | SteerMouse | MacOS Shortcuts //
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2023, 02:05 PM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: guitar volume

Good info above, and here's a different approach:
1-For previously recorded audio, either don't sweat it, or use Clip Gain to give waveforms a similar(consistent) "size" with track height set the same.
2-YMMV, and different folks have different methods, but I almost never use Normalize. I prefer to use Clip Gain and, since this is in the digital world, don't feel the urge to push things as hot as you can get. There is no need for this and just hitting the yellow on the meter is hot enough.
3-Pick a proper recording level and stick to it.
4-Regarding meter/level, clean sounds will need much more headroom. Dirty sounds will have some "natural compression"(which equals much less dynamic range)
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  #4  
Old 03-05-2023, 02:47 PM
priorytools priorytools is offline
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Default Re: guitar volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by my-name-is-thanos View Post
So my guitars were recorded at different volumes throughout the years.
How do I make it to where my volumes are all at the same level in all songs?

I don’t think you want or need to be thinking about that.
Every song is unique.
Each gtr tone you make & use is unique.
I notice you use the words “volume” and “level”…
?
Please re read your question and maybe realise it’s a nonsensical rabbit hole you’re heading down.


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~ 2019 Rack Mac Pro 3.2 GHz 16 core 384 GB RAM Catalina 10.15.7 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2022.12.0 / HDX 2 + UAD2 PCIe OCTO+QUAD / HD I/O's x 4 + 1 x 96io / Digidesign Pre's x 3 / Avid S6 M10-24 -V22.12.1.34 ~
~ Mac Pro 8 core - clover - 13 GB ram - 10.6.8 / HD5 / Pro Tools 9.0.6 / Magma PE6R4 ~ ARCHIVE RIG

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  #5  
Old 03-05-2023, 11:09 PM
my-name-is-thanos my-name-is-thanos is offline
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Default Re: guitar volume

priorytools
Why is everyone on this chat room so hostile?
Y'all get weird when someone doesn't give system information.
A lot of things can be solved without system information.
Didn't think I had to be so thorough but I can be corny.
Guys if you don't have something nice to say then don't say nothing at all.
There's way too much madness going on in this site.

I do want and need to be thinking about that.
I use one guitar tone.
I don't even make a guitar tone.
I pay nearly a thousand dollars for preset platforms because I'm a rockstar.
I do think there is a way to do it.
I don't know the music producer "lingo" so maybe you can give me a break and appreciate the fact that I'm trying.
Don't need to re read my question because I know what I said.
It is not a nonsensical rabbit hole because I know it can be done which is why I'm asking.

When I said songs did you think I was like Led Zeppelin where all my songs use different tunings, guitars, and tones in every song?
No. I have recordings and I want them to be consistent at the same volume throughout the album.
Because over the years when recording the volume knob on the guitar would be at different levels as well as the gain on the interface.
Is it too much to ask?
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  #6  
Old 03-05-2023, 11:14 PM
my-name-is-thanos my-name-is-thanos is offline
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Default Re: guitar volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by nednednerb View Post
Two things about loudness:

1) Peak: the loudest moment in one song might be -3.0 dBFS, so what if you make every track normalized to -3.0 dBFS? What if there is one transient attack louder than rest in one recording? Then, -3.0 dBFS normalization means the main parts of your recording are lower than you expect.

versus

2) Persistence: normalizing to the average loudness, or 'dB RMS', or how loud things are over time, MIGHT be worth considering. However, what if the RMS of one recording is lower than you expect, but it has a high peak? When you normalize to RMS, and the RMS goes up, so will the dBFS peak, OVER 0.0 dBz!!! That means you'll get a red meter, digital clip, nasty distortion likely.

What does this mean?

You probably want to learn more about peak vs persistence and about "loudness" in general. There are some rather simple plug-ins which will "loudness normalize" but since you have the originals, which are probably getting mixed in PT (yes??), I would probably start by changing the input level into the compressor on your guitar tracks, and match by ear and loudness meter.

Also have to remember, even if your WAV files are all equal loudness, the rest of the song parts and the master bus might be changing the relative level of things.

nednednerb
so what are you saying?
I should use a plugin to go through every song and set it to the same setting to run it through the plugin to set it at that? I've heard things about a plugin called levelator or waverider. Is that what you mean?
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  #7  
Old 03-05-2023, 11:24 PM
my-name-is-thanos my-name-is-thanos is offline
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Join Date: May 2018
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Default Re: guitar volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Good info above, and here's a different approach:
1-For previously recorded audio, either don't sweat it, or use Clip Gain to give waveforms a similar(consistent) "size" with track height set the same.
2-YMMV, and different folks have different methods, but I almost never use Normalize. I prefer to use Clip Gain and, since this is in the digital world, don't feel the urge to push things as hot as you can get. There is no need for this and just hitting the yellow on the meter is hot enough.
3-Pick a proper recording level and stick to it.
4-Regarding meter/level, clean sounds will need much more headroom. Dirty sounds will have some "natural compression"(which equals much less dynamic range)
I am sweating it because I want consistency throughout the album.
I don't want my audio to clip obviously I just want everything to be smooth riding.
What I'm working with are rough drafts and I just want to be able to smooth it out for editing purposes just so it sounds good...
The goal is to rerecord everything but when I do its all going to be rerecorded quick and the guitar knob will be taped down because it gets hit and moved on accident.
As well as the gain knob on the interface.
It's nearly impossible to keep those knobs in the same place over years of recordings. So none of that is the same.
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  #8  
Old 03-06-2023, 03:00 PM
priorytools priorytools is offline
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Posts: 1,310
Default Re: guitar volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by my-name-is-thanos View Post
priorytools
Why is everyone on this chat room so hostile?
Y'all get weird when someone doesn't give system information.
A lot of things can be solved without system information.
Didn't think I had to be so thorough but I can be corny.
Guys if you don't have something nice to say then don't say nothing at all.
There's way too much madness going on in this site.

I do want and need to be thinking about that.
I use one guitar tone.
I don't even make a guitar tone.
I pay nearly a thousand dollars for preset platforms because I'm a rockstar.
I do think there is a way to do it.
I don't know the music producer "lingo" so maybe you can give me a break and appreciate the fact that I'm trying.
Don't need to re read my question because I know what I said.
It is not a nonsensical rabbit hole because I know it can be done which is why I'm asking.

When I said songs did you think I was like Led Zeppelin where all my songs use different tunings, guitars, and tones in every song?
No. I have recordings and I want them to be consistent at the same volume throughout the album.
Because over the years when recording the volume knob on the guitar would be at different levels as well as the gain on the interface.
Is it too much to ask?

Hey my-name.
Chill. I’m not being hostile.
I’m merely trying to point out that sometimes in this digital world we become obsessed with uniformity.
Just use your ears when you mix man.
Once your album is done, send it to a good mastering engineer.
Peace brother


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
~ 2019 Rack Mac Pro 3.2 GHz 16 core 384 GB RAM Catalina 10.15.7 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2022.12.0 / HDX 2 + UAD2 PCIe OCTO+QUAD / HD I/O's x 4 + 1 x 96io / Digidesign Pre's x 3 / Avid S6 M10-24 -V22.12.1.34 ~
~ Mac Pro 8 core - clover - 13 GB ram - 10.6.8 / HD5 / Pro Tools 9.0.6 / Magma PE6R4 ~ ARCHIVE RIG

~ Mac Pro (Early 2009) - 2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core-32 GB RAM-10.13.6 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2019.10 / Apollo 16 / Avid S3 ~
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2023, 04:06 PM
my-name-is-thanos my-name-is-thanos is offline
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Default Re: guitar volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by priorytools View Post
Hey my-name.
Chill. I’m not being hostile.
I’m merely trying to point out that sometimes in this digital world we become obsessed with uniformity.
Just use your ears when you mix man.
Once your album is done, send it to a good mastering engineer.
Peace brother


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm just tired of people being snappy on here.
I get what you mean by using your ears.
I just think it should be as easy as running it through a plugin instead on going through every song by ear. Takes to much time and plus even then it's not "perfect" and I get all irritated and just end up quitting.
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2023, 06:26 PM
nednednerb's Avatar
nednednerb nednednerb is offline
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 622
Default Re: guitar volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by my-name-is-thanos View Post
I'm just tired of people being snappy on here.
I get what you mean by using your ears.
I just think it should be as easy as running it through a plugin instead on going through every song by ear. Takes to much time and plus even then it's not "perfect" and I get all irritated and just end up quitting.
For the record, when I read through the replies after mine, I saw not a single moment of snappiness from the others.

Anyway, I mentioned "loudness normalization" -- look up a plugin for that on google. 100+ exist probably. Use one you like.

However, "perfection" like some might consider Led Zeppelin to qualify for did not at all use a plug-in for loudness normalizing all the guitar tones. And, the remastered versions which are only part of "loudness war" (Google that too) are actually less perfect by audiophile standards. Instead, they used time honoured techniques and time listening. A plug-in might make it faster, but probably not more perfect.
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>> me: nednednerB //
||main gig: editing audio voiceovers & testing software | 2nd gig: music software tutoring | hobby: electronic music //
||software: Sonoma 14.2 | PT Studio 2023.12 | Ableton Live 11 | iZotope RX, Ozone, Neutron | Arturia Pigments | Auto-Tune | Dubler2 //
||system: iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020) 10-Core-i9 | 128GB-DDR4 | 5700-XT-16GB | OWC Thunderbolt Hub and Thunderbolt 3 Dock //
||devices: RME Babyface Pro FS | Focusrite Clarett 2Pre | some AT mics | SM58 | Ableton Push 2 | Sennheiser HD 600 HP // Onkyo TX-8220 SR
||automation: SoundFlow | Stream Deck+ | Keyboard Maestro | SteerMouse | MacOS Shortcuts //
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