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  #11  
Old 02-15-2005, 05:55 AM
Andre Knecht Andre Knecht is offline
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Default Re: Defragging external hard drive?

Quote:
[...] granted that you should use DiskUtility, but as you might know there is, most of the times, no other way to format a SCSI disk (in which conjunction FWB is clearly referred to) than using FWB. [...]
You lost me there, regs. Could you please elucidate?
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  #12  
Old 02-15-2005, 08:05 AM
mindnoise mindnoise is offline
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Default Re: Defragging external hard drive?

Hi Andre,

In don´t know if you have worked with SCSI disk on a Mac, but it is nearly impossible to first-initialize a ´general off the shelve´ SCSI disk with the Apple OSX DiskUtility. You need a third party software to get the HD acknolwedged and formated.

I nearly stopped using SCSI drives under OS X, since Apple has thrown nearly every obsticle in my way there possibly is.

This is where FWB comes into play. It´s the only SCSI formatting Software to first-initialize a new SCSI Disk. The funny thing is: once it has a HFS+ filsesystem, OS X has no problem whatsoever with it. So you can re-initialize the drive for optimal performance with DiskUtility.

Since you jumped on the usage on FWB for what was, in my expierence, out of context
to the quote you referred, to.

is that elaborated enough?

regs
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  #13  
Old 02-15-2005, 08:20 AM
sukks2bu sukks2bu is offline
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Default Re: Defragging external hard drive?

Thanks Mindnoise,that pissed me off little too.
No need to try to make others feel stupid.................
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  #14  
Old 02-15-2005, 06:47 PM
Matt_G Matt_G is offline
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Default Re: Defragging external hard drive?

Quote:
stay away from NORTON!!!!! and speed tools, you could as well though your money AND your HD out of the window.
Ok someone has obviously had a bad encounter with Norton Speed Disk. The latest version 8.0.2 seems to operate fine in my experience. However I am curious to know why exactly you feel so strongly about keeping away from it?

Quote:
the only and safest way to properly defrag a HD is is copy your files to a safe place, erase the HD with DiskUtility (no need for low level!!!) and copy your files Back.

Defrag only when significant performance loss is evident, you don´t need to do that on a regular bases.
I always used Norton Speed Disk in Mac OS9 for defragging files (7-8years) with no problems whatsoever. Do you really believe that copying all your data (which could be massive amounts) to another drive, erasing & then copying back is the only way to defrag?? That sounds like way too much effort & time wasted for my liking. There has got to be a better way surely!? Anyone?
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2005, 02:16 AM
mindnoise mindnoise is offline
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Default Re: Defragging external hard drive?

HI Matt,

Quote:
Do you really believe that copying all your data (which could be massive amounts) to another drive, erasing & then copying back is the only way to defrag??
not the only - but the safest and the best, since it cost you no dime.

And the fact of moving diskblocks around without a backup can surly not be considered SAFE.
And I do not believe - I know.

There also seems to be a great HYPE about Speed- and Defrag tools, still. They had their usage in the old computer days, but are becomming obsolete with the new Operating Systems and HDs.
Today these apps are merely a gesture to serve those old habits.
And lots of people mess with their diskblocks just for the sake of it because of some simple instinct to ´keep the house clean´.

You can compare it like this: Norton is to Micromat and Alsoft what a butcher is to a surgeon.
They both forgot more about HFS(+) than Norton ever knew. The reason why it worked well with you is that you always had ´sausage´ problems and no ´heart transplants´, so you can call yourself lucky to never have any severe problems.
And you can´t tell how many problems you encounterd with your software are actually generated by it during earlier use.

Messing with diskblocks actually becomes more disadvantageous these days as the OSes are more self-maintaining these days and journaled File systems are a step further that road.

So I just tried to shed some light on this issue and
all I really say is: take care!

best
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  #16  
Old 02-16-2005, 06:56 AM
danger danger is offline
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Default Re: Defragging external hard drive?

Quote:
Is it necessary on OSX, and if so what is the correct way(or software) to defrag my external audio hard drive? I am about to back up my system and I heard that it is necessary to defrag the drive and also that I should not let my hard drive fill up over 80%. I have no prior knowledge of this and I would like a second opinion.
The only program that I know of that can natively Defrag a drive under OS X is Drive Genius
http://www.prosoftengineering.com/pr...enius_info.php
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2005, 07:25 AM
frenchman frenchman is online now
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Default Re: Defragging external hard drive?

Degramenting is only efficient when reading sequential information, like a single file at a time on a very slow drive, (when loading a big application on the internal drive for example).

DAW data is different : when pro tools is reading 32 tracks at the same time, it has to read and buffer fragments of every track anyway.

So chances are that consolidating data files on the drive by defragmenting will have no effect whatsoever on performance

The only case that could be a problem is if
every file is scattered in very little pieces; This only happens on recent drives when it is so full that the internal management firmware has to fill in all the available spaces.

When you reach that point, degramenting will be a very lengthy process, and even a dangerous one as it has to move around data in a very inefficient way, with risks of overheating if the disk is not properly ventilated.
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2005, 12:02 PM
drguitar drguitar is offline
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Default Re: Defragging external hard drive?

ABSOLUTELY STAY AWAY FROM NORTON

but I have posted about this topic before for finding how to truly defrag without only defragging the directory (Disk Warrior) and without copyin from one drive to another and back again.

I ended up buying TECHTOOL PRO 4 from what I heard on the posts that it generally seemed useful.

So far it works great for me. Can take a long time, but I've used it on multiple audio drives I use for pro tools for a couple months now with absolutely no problems
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2005, 07:48 PM
Andre Knecht Andre Knecht is offline
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Default Re: Defragging external hard drive?

Mindnoise wrote:

Quote:
Hi Andre,
In don´t know if you have worked with SCSI disk on a Mac...
Everyday; nothing but. Thanks for asking.


Quote:
[...] This is where FWB comes into play. It´s the only SCSI formatting Software to first-initialize a new SCSI Disk. [...]
Provided one choses to follow Digidesign's recommendations (I do), the answers can be found on the company's own compatibility documents. There are links to those pages from the OSX troubleshooting page I mentioned in my post. Of course, folks are always perfectly free to go their own way.


Quote:
Since you jumped on the usage on FWB for what was, in my expierence, out of context to the quote you referred, to.
Rereading Digi's applicable (OSX-related, as per the original post) compatiility docs, I can't find a single mention of FWB. But there's plenty of other stuff mentioned. Go figure.


Quote:
is that elaborated enough?
Goody gumdrops - sarcasm. My favorite, indeed.
Now then, "elaborated enough?"
I'd say it was plenty.
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  #20  
Old 02-16-2005, 07:57 PM
Andre Knecht Andre Knecht is offline
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Default Re: Defragging external hard drive?

Sukks2bu (damn that's clever!) wrote:

Quote:
Thanks Mindnoise,that pissed me off little too.
No need to try to make others feel stupid.................
Being reminded of official recommendations made you feel stupid? Wait until someone points out how clever your "nom de plume" is.

Almost forgot, here's a wink right back at ya.
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